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The US Presidential Elections in 2020


Spazman
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8 minutes ago, Panikooooos said:

Also as a guy who started using this website as an alternative to politically correct psnp, which became resetera and decided to ban me with no warnings, it is worrisome to see the "administrator" (possibly owner too?) of this website, justify and excuse censorship so vehemently, first red flag I'm seeing. 

 

This isn't the place for you if you think psnp is too "politically correct". 

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'Censorship' gets thrown around way too much these days, it's almost lost all meaning, just like phrases such as cuck, sjw, simp etc.

 

Guess some people think it's fine for one of the most powerful men in the world to incite violence and spread harmful misinformation for months and riles up millions of his supporters without consequence because mah free speech.

Edited by Sellers
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22 minutes ago, Sellers said:

'Censorship' gets thrown around way too much these days, it's almost lost all meaning, just like phrases such as cuck, sjw, simp etc.

 

Guess some people think it's fine for one of the most powerful men in the world to incite violence and spread harmful misinformation for months and riles up millions of his supporters without consequence because mah free speech.


Mate, have you SEEN what Sony have done to our Japanese games? :francis:

 

I think your second paragraph is a little patronising though, I don’t think anyone here thinks it’s ‘fine’ to incite violence and I certainly think Twitter were right to put a stop to Trump’s lunatic ramblings.

 

BUT what people are saying is that would Twitter, Facebook etc be so quick to shut down someone left-leaning so quickly? They certainly didn’t during the summer with all the BLM riots etc, although granted the difference there is that there wasn’t one centralised figure who they could trace it back to unlike the Capitol incident.

 

Regardless, they’ve made a rod for their own back now. It’s clear it’s not an ‘anything goes’ platform anymore (was it ever? Maybe such extremes as we’ve had this week were never touched until now) on either side of the spectrum, and at the first sign of a leftist inciting something then there’s going to be a rabid ‘what about’ reaction from the right.

 

I’d like to think that such dramatic measures won’t be needed on either side in future and everything calms down considerably, but if not I’d like to think that Twitter would clamp down on the left as much as the right. But as Ash said, I have nagging doubts they would. Hope I’m wrong!

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2 minutes ago, Darth_Krid said:

BUT what people are saying is that would Twitter, Facebook etc be so quick to shut down someone left-leaning so quickly? They certainly didn’t during the summer with all the BLM riots etc, although granted the difference there is that there wasn’t one centralised figure who they could trace it back to unlike the Capitol incident.

The difference is also that there's nothing inherently wrong organizing a protest over Twitter, and any bad actors can be dealt with during said protests without kicking every "liberal" off of Twitter. There are certainly people who should have been better held responsible, and there are certainly people who could stand to be removed from Twitter, but speculating whether Twitter would act the same way in a hypothetical situation is pretty meaningless, and not really helpful.

 

2 hours ago, Panikooooos said:

Also as a guy who started using this website as an alternative to politically correct psnp, which became resetera and decided to ban me with no warnings, it is worrisome to see the "administrator" (possibly owner too?) of this website, justify and excuse censorship so vehemently, first red flag I'm seeing. 

I'm not in support of Parler being removed from the internet. I've laid out my feelings on certain platforms (including this one) holding people to the same standards and removing them from said platform if they break the rules. If you think that's a red flag, OK, but I'm all for having as many conservatives on this site as possible, so long as you don't make bigotry, racism or dangerous ignorance a political issue, because they aren't. If you have any concerns about the aforementioned issues, I'd be happy to discuss them in private, including reasons why I feel that way.

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1 hour ago, Darth_Krid said:

It’s clear it’s not an ‘anything goes’ platform anymore (was it ever? Maybe such extremes as we’ve had this week were never touched until now) 

My free speech right to post dick-pics everywhere I go has yet to be recognized by the Supreme Court... 🤨

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This is a gross overreach by Big Tech, whether you support Trump or Biden. That is exactly how you create a giant echo chamber. Media was already blatantly siding with one ideology at the expense of objective reporting.

 

Ask yourself, what if Twitter banned the blue checkmark crusaders who were inciting rioting for Antifa and to a slightly lesser extent BLM?  That was identical.

 

Everyone deserves a right to say what they want, where they want AND reap the consequences of what they choose to say in public. If you want to be a racist then don't cry foul if you get punched in the face. And yes violence is never the answer.

 

You can't shield everyone from the world's ills and make the world a giant safe space. We are creating a world where no-one can handle even a shred of adversity. Time for people to bloody well grow up.

 

This just creates even more division and drives the fringe extremes to be more secretive.

Edited by Furious Gargoyle
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33 minutes ago, Furious Gargoyle said:

Ask yourself, what if Twitter banned the blue checkmark crusaders who were inciting rioting for Antifa and to a slightly lesser extent BLM?  That was identical.

It wasn't identical, and it's been explained many times why whatever a "blue checkmark crusader" is is no way analogous to the President of the United States and his friends and family telling people that it's in their hands to take back the country by force.

35 minutes ago, Furious Gargoyle said:

Everyone deserves a right to say what they want, where they want AND reap the consequences of what they choose to say in public. If you want to be a racist then don't cry foul if you get punched in the face. And yes violence is never the answer.

And in this case, the consequences are being banned from specific platforms. I agree removing Parler outright is an overreach, but Twitter has every right to remove people, just like bakeries have a right to not make gay wedding cakes or whatever.

 

36 minutes ago, Furious Gargoyle said:

This just creates even more division and drives the fringe extremes to be more secretive.

Making baseless accusations that the election was stolen creates division, it isn't on the Democrats to try to bring the country back together after that.

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I think this will be my final thoughts in this particular thread. Besides the fact Inauguration Day is around the corner and this was originally an Election thread and I believe all of what's going on is coming to an awful finale and the dice have already been thrown. Some of the conversation have been fruitful; although I stand my viewpoints...I have taken what others have said into consideration whether or not it appears that way.

 

7 hours ago, Sellers said:

Guess some people think it's fine for one of the most powerful men in the world to incite violence and spread harmful misinformation for months and riles up millions of his supporters without consequence because mah free speech.

 

 According to Twitter's official blog post about this whole incident, they referenced the two Tweets he made that led to his suspension and assessed what he wrote into what they think that he meant Re: "GIANT VOICE long into the future " = "does not plan to facilitate an orderly transition” and him not wanting to attend the inauguration as some code for making the event a "soft target" (and does anybody even want him there anyways?) These assessments are quite the mental gymnastics to tie him into violations of their Glorification of Violence Policy. Twitter essentially admits this in their opening statement by noting that it was how his Tweets "are being received and interpreted." So, they are interpreting what he is saying based on what they think others may or may not interpret what he is saying.

 

I'm a stickler for this type of buffoonery not because I am playing semantics, not that I support him or the nincompoops that stormed the Capitol, but because of Twitter and Co. selectively enforces rules on speech and this will have detrimental effects in the long run and it's unsettling that there is no checks & balances with big tech. These are the same companies that influence our elections, store our personal data and which people use to manage their daily lives/interact with others for better or worse. This was handled very poorly and there will be damaging ripple effects from this whether people want to admit or not.

Edited by rotoninja
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1 hour ago, rotoninja said:

This was handled very poorly and there will be damaging ripple effects from this whether people want to admit or not.

 

I know you said this was your final and I'm using my first post in almost a week to ask you a very specific question...

 

We agree and disagree on a lot of things and I think that's healthy. But it took storming the Capital Bldg for anything to happen. In the past 4 years, were there not moments of "wow, this is what's happening on Twitter?" or "I'm sure there are better ways to do this than through a tweet" or "this might be a bit unpresidential"? 

 

Firing people, threatening other countries (which I would love to pull up but you must excuse that I'm just... not in social media mood right now and don't wish to even go on that site... or most sites... currently), etc? I get talking to your fanbase, your voters, what have you... 100% get it. It's necessary. And this next part could be me being naive af because I live in California, but there's been a steady line being etched in over and over again the past 4 years of "if you voted for me, I support you, if you didn't, fuck off" and even vice versa. We've seen it in this thread. You're either with Trump or you're against him, there is no in-between. I've learned a shit ton about hypocrisy the past few months and this situation, while is different... at the same time... isn't. But is. But isn't. But is. But isn't. 

 

There wasn't a world leader "leading" the BLM riots. There wasn't someone in charge of a whole ass country telling us "yes, go raid those stores, break those windows, screw the man, it's worth it!". But here, you have to admit, there is a clear line leading back to Trump. "Fight to get your country back". "They're stealing it from you". "Do everything you can to win". He may not have originated the idea, but he fed it for sure. Up til the day it happened and then he couldn't anymore because he got banned in a lot of places. 

 

I hope this changes everything going forward. I hope this is the precedent. I hope things get scrutinized and debated and torn apart over this. I hope it flips the social media world upside down, on its side, back upright again, and then back upside down. Nothing like this has happened before so now that it has, something sure as shit needs to be done about it. Do I agree with Twitter full heartedly? No, but I also understand that allowing him to continue on that platform, for the time being, is a bad idea. Even if just for the next 9 days. 

 

I'm not looking forward to the 19th or the 20th. Both sides are riled up beyond belief at this point and we've said it a million times before that "something has to give", "something has to break" and quite frankly, a bunch of angry people storming into the Capital building and taking selfies isn't that break. It was dumb, it was a waste of time, and people died because of it. It accomplished nothing. And it was fueled by yes, Trump, but so many more than just him. He got banned, yeah, because he's President of the United States encouraging people to storm a federal building to stop the count of an legal election. A storm in which he said he would be with them during, and wasn't, which only fuels shit up even more. That deserves a ban on Twitter. On Twitter. We're arguing about fucking Twitter. Welcome to 2021... But he's sure as shit not the only one making those kind of calls.

 

It sets a standard, yes. Precedent, whatever you want to call it. Yes. Because a President sure damn sure be held more accountable for his words and his actions. If getting banned from Social Media is the worst thing that happens to him, then he's lived a damn good life.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Velvet
Excuse the bloody typos, I'm typing a mile a minute, deal with it
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2 hours ago, rotoninja said:

Twitter and Co. selectively enforces rules on speech and this will have detrimental effects in the long run and it's unsettling that there is no checks & balances with big tech. These are the same companies that influence our elections, store our personal data and which people use to manage their daily lives/interact with others for better or worse. This was handled very poorly and there will be damaging ripple effects from this whether people want to admit or not.

 

This is all just a massive overreaction. Trump chose to use Twitter. Twitter never chose to be Trump's megaphone or the largest political battleground of the last four years. 

This was handled exactly as it should have been, it's not Twitter's job to maintain the balance of the universe. 

It's simple, really, try to overthrow the government, get banned. There was no other way to handle it. They're just another social media platform, not a branch of governmental authority.

 

Long response short, he should never have even been allowed to make any political statements on Twitter. He should have been doing it through official channels. And I know for a fact that this was a topic of discussion this time four years ago when we were talking about his inauguration...

 

Edited by Metdevil
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yep. i check  on twitter on my friend account. no longer their.

he said twitter warn him for some tweets.

he refuse to take them down.

i know why his account was deleted by twitter.

i reported 4 comments he made.

2 out right racist comments

2 death threats

dude has parler and at one point a gab account.

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6 hours ago, Furious Gargoyle said:

This is a gross overreach by Big Tech, whether you support Trump or Biden. That is exactly how you create a giant echo chamber. Media was already blatantly siding with one ideology at the expense of objective reporting.

 

Ask yourself, what if Twitter banned the blue checkmark crusaders who were inciting rioting for Antifa and to a slightly lesser extent BLM?  That was identical.

 

Everyone deserves a right to say what they want, where they want AND reap the consequences of what they choose to say in public. If you want to be a racist then don't cry foul if you get punched in the face. And yes violence is never the answer.

 

You can't shield everyone from the world's ills and make the world a giant safe space. We are creating a world where no-one can handle even a shred of adversity. Time for people to bloody well grow up.

 

This just creates even more division and drives the fringe extremes to be more secretive.

 

I agree with this post entirely, especially your 3rd and 4th paragraphs!

 

While I do agree that Trump is a buffoon that posts crap nonstop, I don't think it was right to ban his account. It actually makes Trump looks 100% correct when he states how biased the media is towards left leaning people. And his supporters will get even more angry that Twitter is showing their obvious bias. Now there are sites like Parler that are known to be right-wing supporting, and you have companies like Apple removing them from their services to make it harder to access them. Again, showing the media bias with them as well.

 

I'm worried that this one little thing of banning Trump's account will make people think it's ok to ban anyone that doesn't agree with their ideologies, and in the future it will be the norm to silence anyone that doesn't agree with you. And that type of censorship scares me the most!

 

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35 minutes ago, Jerry Appleby said:

It actually makes Trump looks 100% correct when he states how biased the media is towards left leaning people. And his supporters will get even more angry that Twitter is showing their obvious bias

 

So being anti-killing-five-people-in-a-riot-to-topple-the-US-government is showing your obvious bias toward the left? 

 

This is ridiculous guys :facepalm: you're actually defending the morons conspiring against the US government...

Won't be long before you're all sporting your Qanon avatars eh? :rolleyes:

 

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18 hours ago, Metdevil said:

 

So being anti-killing-five-people-in-a-riot-to-topple-the-US-government is showing your obvious bias toward the left? 

 

This is ridiculous guys :facepalm: you're actually defending the morons conspiring against the US government...

Won't be long before you're all sporting your Qanon avatars eh? :rolleyes:

 

i seen a few.. that alread got deleted account on twitter and fb. just for re posting a constant mis info. nothing else. no personal post

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On 1/11/2021 at 8:44 PM, Metdevil said:

This is ridiculous guys :facepalm: you're actually defending the morons conspiring against the US government...

Won't be long before you're all sporting your Qanon avatars eh? :rolleyes:

 

 

I'm not supporting those idiots. I never said anything relating to those guys. The people who broke into the building are criminals and deserve any jail time they get coming to them.

 

But what I'm trying to say is that the banning of Trump's account could bring on a huge amount of cancel culture and biased media in the future. They start out by banning one account. Next, another person will get banned for stating something against the norm, and soon after that people will get banned left and right because their ideas don't conform to what people believe is right.

Pretty soon, free speech will not exist because no matter what is said, somebody will take offence to it and will want it removed.

 

That's why I said I particularly agreed with the post above stating:

 

Quote

You can't shield everyone from the world's ills and make the world a giant safe space. We are creating a world where no-one can handle even a shred of adversity. Time for people to bloody well grow up.

Instead of cancelling anything people don't agree with, why not create a dialogue between the parties involved to facilitate a more meaningful conversation instead? :) 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jerry Appleby said:

Pretty soon, free speech will not exist because no matter what is said, somebody will take offence to it and will want it removed.

Free speech has never applied to private platforms. It's the reason why mods here are allowed to ban people for saying things against our norms. 

In other words, this has always been a thing, nothing will change, and expecting the moderators to put up with people saying things they don't want to be said on their platform would violate their rights. 

 

What you're predicting already happens and has already happened since the beginning of Internet forums. Hell, even the conservative subreddit has restricted posting to those with particular flairs and even have their own private discord server... 

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11 hours ago, Jerry Appleby said:

why not create a dialogue between the parties involved to facilitate a more meaningful conversation instead?

Surely you've been alive longer than a year... has that worked so far?

 

Nothing will work so long as there are extremists on both sides. There hasn't been a common ground in quite some time. The left blames the right and the right blames the left. There is no "us" anymore. Too many people have chosen a team and they've decided loyalty to that team is more important than loyalty to the goodwill of fellow humans. Self-interest is more important than the interest of all. I have no idea what it will take for people to abandon the us-vs-them mentality and lower the amount of drama in our lives, but good god it's all getting old.

 

I worry for the world my kids will inherit.

Edited by Slamma
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On 1/14/2021 at 7:48 AM, Slamma said:

Nothing will work so long as there are extremists on both sides. There hasn't been a common ground in quite some time. The left blames the right and the right blames the left. There is no "us" anymore.

 

Keep in mind that we're talking about the Democrats and Republicans, and only in the United States are they believed to be a left party and a right party.  Everywhere else in the world, they are more accurately recognized as a center-right party and an extreme right party.  The term "extremist" therefore doesn't quite mean what Americans think it does when it comes to the two parties, e.g. the American media presenting Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a "radical leftist".

 

Meanwhile...

 

 

Kinda surprised this wasn't the plan already, given that the pandemic is still raging on.  I think it would be perfectly understandable under the circumstances.

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14 minutes ago, MegaHentai said:

The term "extremist" therefore doesn't quite mean what Americans think it does when it comes to the two parties, e.g. the American media presenting Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a "radical leftist".

The term extremism can also mean an ideology outside of the mainstream attitudes of society, so while you are correct about the placement of the USA's political parties on the spectrum, there can still be, and are, extreme members of both parties in their beliefs.

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On 1/11/2021 at 11:46 PM, Mendel said:

Making baseless accusations that the election was stolen creates division, it isn't on the Democrats to try to bring the country back together after that.

Right, as if Democrats weren't the ones saying RUSSIAN HACKERS STOLE THE ELECTION for the last 4 years right? I guess that wasn't a "baseless accusation" because CNN told you so 😆 We did not forget what you did the last 4 years, just like we did not forget what happened last year when cities were being burned to the ground, antifa literally took over multiple blocks and set up an Anarcho-Communist regime, ruled by a warlorld with an AK 47 saying "We are the police now" and the liberal mayor just let it happen! Was that Anarcho-Communist compound not a "threat to our democracy" back then? This election was stolen from Trump, with thousands of ballots at 4am in the morning and everybody knows it. In fact there are several statistical impossibilities like the small number of counties Biden won, the bellwethers, the states he should have won but didn't, proving this election was stolen, meanwhile all you have to show for your Russian hoax, is some russians buying pro-Trump ads on facebook 😄

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15 minutes ago, Panikooooos said:

because CNN told you so 😆

 

I found this absolutely hilarious considering where the rest of your post went. Left? Right? Democrat? Republican? Christ, you're both as bad as each other.

One thing's for certain though, it wasn't the president leading the Antifa mobs...

19 minutes ago, Panikooooos said:

This election was stolen from Trump, with thousands of ballots at 4am in the morning and everybody knows it.

Nothing suspicious about it, some states weren't allowed to process mail in votes until voting closed. People predicted that exactly this would happen before the election. It was all over the news for the months leading up to the election. 

22 minutes ago, Panikooooos said:

In fact there are several statistical impossibilities like the small number of counties Biden won, the bellwethers, the states he should have won but didn't, proving this election was stolen

"Proving"? Where's the proof? 

23 minutes ago, Panikooooos said:

meanwhile all you have to show for your Russian hoax, is some russians buying pro-Trump ads on facebook 😄

That's a hell of a lot more evidence than Giuliani presented at court :rofl:

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