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Story discussion thread - Massive spoilers inside!


AshtimusPrime
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Just finished chapter 6 and started the Epilogue. Going to raise some points about it so far as I feel like I've done the "main game".

 

Arthur

What a legend. Such an amazing protagonist and so likeable. Every time he coughed I felt bad for him, even though he got it because of his own misdeeds. Watching my other half start a playthrough and see the point at which Arthur wipes blood from his face after Downes coughs on him just made it all the more upsetting.

 

I thought he'd die in a blaze of glory or get killed by Dutch or Micah, so to see him succumb to his illness with a beautiful view actually seemed like the best he could have hoped for. Although I wish someone (Sadie perhaps) was with him when he died. Seemed sad to be there alone.

 

Arthur's Horse

This was the most upsetting scene though. Arthur whispering "thank you". :pout:

 

Gang deaths

Hosea is the one that annoyed me the most. Just shot like that in the street. What about the law, Milton?! Sean's death was the most shocking though just because I wasn't expecting it.

 

Dutch

Seeing his descent in to reckless and crazy antics just made him such a hated character. When he abandoned Arthur in the oil factory I wanted him dead there and then. 12 year wait will have to do...

 

Micah

Fucking cunt. I knew he wasn't right so I guess him being a rat was pretty underwhelming. His killing of Susan seemed so random and unnecessary though. I'm hoping John will see to him in these last 20 missions...

 

John

Speaking of John, at the start of this game I started to dislike him for what he does in the last game. Killing Bill and Dutch (kind of) and capturing (or killing) Javier, even though he "has to" just made me question who he is. Then we see (what the last game references as well) how Dutch left him for dead after the train robbery, and how he sided with Arthur whilst Dutch, Javier and Bill were on the other side. Not only that, they abandoned Abigail and Jack as well. No wonder John, despite having some misgivings, would turn on them when his family was threatened.

 

Also I love how it was Arthur that convinced him to get out. :D

 

Sadie

Yeah, she's awesome. As much as you think her and Arthur make a great team or even get together perhaps, I like the fact she's still so loyal to her dead husband. More Sadie please!

 

Overall Rockstar have outdone themselves here. The story is amazing and the gang interactions and activities equally so. Although Guarma can do one. What a load of filler that was. It's like they were trying for it to be another Mexico-style arc but was far too rushed and had no context behind it like Mexico did. Glad it didn't last too long.

 

I'll be back after the Epilogue to read through this thread and give more thoughts.

 

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Micah

Fucking cunt. I knew he wasn't right so I guess him being a rat was pretty underwhelming. His killing of Susan seemed so random and unnecessary though. I'm hoping John will see to him in these last 20 missions...

 

I just got this idea and it's going to be pretty unpopular too but here goes.

 

Spin off story with Micah.

 

I think it would be really cool to see what was really going on behind the scenes.

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I just got this idea and it's going to be pretty unpopular too but here goes.

 

Spin off story with Micah.

 

I think it would be really cool to see what was really going on behind the scenes.

 

Micah is a complete cunt and deserves nothing.

 

Would much prefer to see more from Sadie or something based around Arthur, maybe prior to the RDR2 story.

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I've seen a video on YouTube that shows a conversation in the camp in chapter 6 between Micah and Javier. They'll tell you it's a private conversation, speak inaudibly, laugh and shake hands. So fuck Javier as well. Glad he's likely swinging from a rope down the line.

 

Micah is a complete cunt and deserves nothing.

 

Would much prefer to see more from Sadie or something based around Arthur, maybe prior to the RDR2 story.

 

Yep, fuck Micah. Sadie DLC for sure during the period between 1899 and 1907. Maybe more on how Javier and Bill ended up going the way they did as well by 1911. Another prequel can be about Landon Ricketts (which I've said for years!) with perhaps running in to a younger Dutch and Hosea and much younger Arthur and Mary perhaps.

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I finally finished the main game last night and OMG that was so much worse than the end of RDR1. Knowing what was going to happen to my horse is one thing, but seeing it is completely different. RIP my beautiful silver Turkoman that I had since chapter 2. I am not someone that cries easily at video games but I was ready to sob seeing it. Of course, my emotions were already high once the music started on the ride back to camp. And Arthur, my God, Arthur. I barely shed a tear when John died in the first game, knowing it was coming, but I knew the same thing with Arthur but I was fighting off tears during that whole cutscene.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Epilogue done. Yep, definitely a fantastic story and surpassed the last game in every way. I loved the Epilogue. It was so calming to do some ranch work, and build a home for the Marstons. John saying "it's over" or whatever just made it all the more sad for what we know will happen.

 

Was ready to flip a house when Sadie got stabbed. Thank fuck she pulled through!

 

Seeing Dutch in the last mission was a genuine shock. It would've been better to not see him, then we do and it makes John killing him later all the better, but then he redeems himself? Why?

 

Creepy thing I noticed: after the credits John and Abigail are stood exactly where their graves will be. :scared:

 

Also, I'm not convinced Micah was a rat. We know that the ferry job that went wrong was his idea, as was parleying with the O'Driscolls, which also went wrong, but only for Arthur. But according to Milton Micah was picked up after they returned from Guarma. So we can assume that Micah was just an incompetent prick before then. What happened after Guarma? Nothing. Things went wrong as normal but that's not necessarily down to Micah. Milton said Molly didn't budge, yet she drunkenly admitted to talking, which caused the fuck up at the Saint Denis bank. And when Micah had a chance to turn the gang in when Abigail got captured he didn't take it, he called for them to just run away. Surely a rat would have pushed to rescue her?

 

Micah was a prick, a racist and a Dutch enabler, but he only fought with Arthur after he'd accused him of being a rat. During their fight he never admitted it, and years later he didn't either, even when faced with death. Milton likely said this to sow discontent, and it bloody worked. The rest of the gang separated and they were easier to pick off, even if it took years.

 

Also one thing thats ben in my head for quite some time now. Was Arthur Morgan ever mentioned in the original? Ben so long since i played it and dont remember. Kinda wish i could go back and play it again would haven nice to se the gang again in that game.

 

No, he wasn't. If you don't have a last-gen console then you can just watch YouTube videos of the story.

 

I was hoping there would be more info on why John wants to kill Bill Williamson (in RDR1). It is probably explored in RDR1 but like I said its been so long since I played. I also didn't remember that Dutch was in RDR1.

 

Bill siding with Dutch against Arthur and John and in abandoning Abigail is all the justification needed for John to turn on him when his family is threatened.

 

The moment they announced you’d be playing a character unreferenced in the first red dead redemption, I think we all came to the same conclusion. Arthur Morgan wasn’t making it out of this game alive.

 

We'd never heard of Sadie or Charles and they made it out alive. ;)

 

I put this gif in spoilers because it has major Django Unchained spoilers. Saw this on Reddit, and thought it was hilarious. So I thought you all might enjoy! Also, if you haven't watched Django Unchained yet, I insist you do so!

 

 

[spoiler=mcololol]qFdOPtt.gif

 

 

EDIT: In hindsight, maybe the story thread wasn't the best place for this. Oh well, it's 2am.

 

:rofl:

 

My other minor flaw would be Dutch's cameo in the epilogue. Leave him with Chapter 6 being his final bow, as it would have meant John's actions in RDR would be more believable. As it stands we have Dutch pulling a slight redemption arc and I couldn't see this leading to the events of RDR.

 

Yeah, this bothered me. Seeing Dutch made his end seem more satisfying but then he shoots Micah? As we all know, he should have shot John.

 

Anyone know whether the legendary channel catfish in rio bravo is actually catchable?

 

No, it's a catfish. ;)

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Micah was a prick, a racist and a Dutch enabler, but he only fought with Arthur after he'd accused him of being a rat.

 

Don't think that's entirely accurate. When you break Micah out of jail early in the game it's implied that Arthur and Micah haven't been getting along since Micah first joined up with them. Arthur clearly doesn't like him to the point that he would rather let him hang. I'd argue that they have probably been fighting with one another for that entire six month period and the two definitely have a history.

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Don't think that's entirely accurate. When you break Micah out of jail early in the game it's implied that Arthur and Micah haven't been getting along since Micah first joined up with them. Arthur clearly doesn't like him to the point that he would rather let him hang. I'd argue that they have probably been fighting with one another for that entire six month period and the two definitely have a history.

 

Oh there was definitely no love lost between them, but a bad attitude and verbal insults are not what I was referring to. By fight I mean the actual fight at the end of the game. From Micah's point of view if he's not a rat, then he's fighting a man who's accusing him of something that could get him killed.

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Oh there was definitely no love lost between them, but a bad attitude and verbal insults are not what I was referring to. By fight I mean the actual fight at the end of the game. From Micah's point of view if he's not a rat, then he's fighting a man who's accusing him of something that could get him killed.

 

Ahh I gotcha now. Either way he's a douche and deserves anything directed at him. Rat or no rat, but we all know he's a rat. Love how during the standoff Arthur refers to him as a snake and tainting Dutch's already fragile psyche.

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Ahh I gotcha now. Either way he's a douche and deserves anything directed at him. Rat or no rat, but we all know he's a rat. Love how during the standoff Arthur refers to him as a snake and tainting Dutch's already fragile psyche.

 

Yeah I didn't shed a tear when I shot him in the face, I just wish there was more to it as I'm not convinced.

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Yeah I didn't shed a tear when I shot him in the face, I just wish there was more to it as I'm not convinced.

 

Would have been cool if he admitted to being a rat, one last fuck you to piss off John and rub it in his face all those years later. He definitely had one of the best death animations though.

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  • 1 month later...

Story was OK. It definitely wasn't as good as the first game though, mainly because it had a slight air of predictability about it.

 

When John Marston gets killed in RDR1, you genuinely don't see it coming, and that added a massive shock value to the story. Then the way the game transition to playing as grown up Jack Marston seeking revenge is excellent.

 

The fact they had Arthur Morgan die here too, was just a bit "meh" because it's been done before. The fact that he also contracts tuberculosis about 3/4 of the way into the story also takes away any potential shock factor because it confirms the inevitability of his eventual death.

 

The epilogue is also too long, especially when you spend half the time doing menial, boring shit that feels completely pointless.

 

I like the characters though, and the level of dedicated effort towards it's length and careful scripting is something to be acknowledged.

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Seeing Dutch in the last mission was a genuine shock. It would've been better to not see him, then we do and it makes John killing him later all the better, but then he redeems himself? Why?

 

Also, I'm not convinced Micah was a rat. We know that the ferry job that went wrong was his idea, as was parleying with the O'Driscolls, which also went wrong, but only for Arthur. But according to Milton Micah was picked up after they returned from Guarma. So we can assume that Micah was just an incompetent prick before then. What happened after Guarma? Nothing. Things went wrong as normal but that's not necessarily down to Micah. Milton said Molly didn't budge, yet she drunkenly admitted to talking, which caused the fuck up at the Saint Denis bank. And when Micah had a chance to turn the gang in when Abigail got captured he didn't take it, he called for them to just run away. Surely a rat would have pushed to rescue her?

 

Micah was a prick, a racist and a Dutch enabler, but he only fought with Arthur after he'd accused him of being a rat. During their fight he never admitted it, and years later he didn't either, even when faced with death. Milton likely said this to sow discontent, and it bloody worked. The rest of the gang separated and they were easier to pick off, even if it took years.

 

"We got to stop meeting like this." - Dutch on a snowy cliff in RDR1 with John pointing a gun at him.

 

I think Micah was always in it for himself. Sort of like a Game of Thrones character. He always did what would put him in the best position. That would include being some form of rat. Especially as the Pinkertons were putting pressure on the gang. He would need some breathing room when things did completely fall apart.

 

According to the Red Dead wiki, if you visit Micah's temporary Strawberry camp, you can see two newspaper clippings. One from an old murder him and his father carried out in Ohio, and another is from the steamboat heist. The former likely being a memento/trophy, which would be typical of someone with Micah's more psychopathic tendencies. The latter likely a constant reminder that the Blackwater money exists. Possibly something in itself he could use to his advantage down the road.

 

You can also find a bounty poster for Dutch. It's never explained why he has it. Maybe it was his "Get out of Jail Free" card. If they got caught, he could pull that out and say he was hunting Dutch undercover or something (because why would a member of Dutch's gang carry around a bounty poser of their leader?). But it's entirely possible Micah was planning on betraying Dutch from the very start. Maybe when the Blackwater money became a thing, Micah bided his time in hopes to get both the money and the bounty. For all we know, John showing up at the end saved Dutch's life. Dutch may have gotten the sense Micah may kill him, and then take the money for himself (and whatever benefits come for bringing Dutch's corpse in). So by shooting Micah, he tied up one dangerous loose end. By saving John's life, leaving him the money, and sparing Sadie, that might give everyone else incentive to leave Dutch alone (tying a few dangerous loose end).

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After watching the gf play through I did notice when they're fighting that Arthur calls Micah a rat and he just responds "I'm a survivor!", so it is telling that he doesn't deny it at that point, even though it is just the two of them.

 

I just can't shake that Milton said Molly didn't give anything up, which we know isn't true.

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