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Story discussion thread - Massive spoilers inside!


AshtimusPrime
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Still early in the story for me so I will try not to return here, but I want to point out the character links between the two games. It's quite haunting seeing John, Dutch, Bill, Javier and Uncle, knowing full well what happens to them years later in the last game.

 

The best moment though was when Jack met Edgar Ross by the river during the fishing mission, with Edgar saying "Enjoy your fishing, whilst you can" or something like that. The fact that the first time these two meet Jack is fishing, and 15 years later they meet for the last time whilst Edgar is fishing is pretty awesome. :D

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*vague spoilers below*

 

i think one of the most beautiful, yet sad, moments in gaming is the 'thats the way it is" bit late in the game. absolutely phenomenal and had to pause the game to wipe my eyes.

 

Still early in the story for me so I will try not to return here, but I want to point out the character links between the two games. It's quite haunting seeing John, Dutch, Bill, Javier and Uncle, knowing full well what happens to them years later in the last game.

 

The best moment though was when Jack met Edgar Ross by the river during the fishing mission, with Edgar saying "Enjoy your fishing, whilst you can" or something like that. The fact that the first time these two meet Jack is fishing, and 15 years later they meet for the last time whilst Edgar is fishing is pretty awesome. :D

 

oh yeah, that is brilliant on the fishing thing :D i was just htinking "oh wait you smug fuck, you'll gets yours in due course" xD its bad, but i totally forgot who uncle was until later in the story.

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Finaly I hit the end of the story last night.

 

At the early stage I purposely tried my best to slow down my progress of main story missions. Especially in Chpt 3. (The timeline of Chpt 2 is the same time player spending a lot of time on exploring the game so I can't say it's all about "slowing down".) Although according to the story they were fleeing. Kind of emergency. But it's game playing. As long as I didn't take the main mission the gang kept staying safely in the camp. The peace, peace is like a beautiful calm lake surface. I can't bear to break it.

 

For most of the gang, doom is a destined fate. I knew it. They knew it. So I have to go on eventually. They have to go on.

 

However I still felt very bad, very sad when the members falling down, one by one.

 

I missed Hosea, Susan, and those young lads. (sorry I'm not sure I could spell their names right because I played Chinese version) When Arthur lost them I felt like losing friends of myself.

 

And then finally we lost Arthur. We all knew it would be like that. And we've lost John ten years ago. Oh the god-damned fate!

 

Sorry I'm incoherent here. I just wanna tell someone I really feel sad in these a few days.

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Wow chapter 6 though. And that ending. Last mission, when you were riding to camp. Tears in my eyes. What a game. Ofcourse i still got complete the epilogue but dont matter. Def rockstars best yet, atleast in terms of story imo. Best game this year no doubt. And not because there isnt competition, because oh boy there is this year. God of war spider man dragon quest etc. Ben alot of god games.

 

Also one thing thats ben in my head for quite some time now. Was Arthur Morgan ever mentioned in the original? Ben so long since i played it and dont remember. Kinda wish i could go back and play it again would haven nice to se the gang again in that game.

 

Also going into spiler territory which i guess is fine in this thread. Arthur had quite a big deal in helping john get away and set up the story for the first game that why im kinda thinking if that was ever taken up in the original.

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So I've just completed chapter 3.

 

The whole bit with Arthur getting captured by the O'Driscols seemed like it was going to be a major plot development. But then he escapes pretty easily, wanders back to camp and a few weeks later is back in the thick of the action with no mention of it.

 

whole thing seemed disappointingly inconsequential and a bit shoehorned.

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So I've just completed chapter 3.

 

The whole bit with Arthur getting captured by the O'Driscols seemed like it was going to be a major plot development. But then he escapes pretty easily, wanders back to camp and a few weeks later is back in the thick of the action with no mention of it.

 

whole thing seemed disappointingly inconsequential and a bit shoehorned.

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Touching moment Arthur's last ride at the end of chapter 6... oh well... :pout:

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

Anyway I must be honest... I didn't remember RDR1 storyline and then! I found out Dutch was the main target there... Ohh!!

 

It felt weird using Arthur again when I started to replay some missions after the end of those loooong credits...

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I've finally completed the games Epilogue and I must say this is probably one of the best stories I've ever played. Great character development for almost every character in the camp. I didn't really like Arthur when the game started but as the story progressed I started liking him more and more. Looking back I guess it's another redemption story about an outlaw with a deep sense of honor and a kind heart, like John. And Dutch... such a charismatic man that you can't help but to agree with everything he says, a man that can buy the world by just talking. At the beginning of the game I kept asking myself "What happened to John that made him want to betray Dutch and ultimately killing him in the end of RDR?", that question got answer bit by bit as we watched Dutch losing his mind with despair.

 

Chapter 6 started with a bang - Arthur got tuberculosis, he's going to die at the end of the game - I started making possibilities in my head Arthur will survive somehow, I'll take control of John and the worst possibility was one of those endings where that game goes back to a time previous to the last mission (those are the worse) - I couldn't believe it, it was agonizing just to play the game seeing Arthur's health getting worse with each mission you played. But despite that he kept going, his relationship with Dutch deteriorating with every decision he made, staying just to help the few that deserved a second chance, mostly John who he hated at the start of the game. During the last few missions we saw everything going to shit, everyone fighting each other, Dutch not caring for anyone but himself and using other people's misfortunes to gain an advantage.

 

The final mission of the game was pretty epic Arthur finally having enough of Dutch and making everyone pic sides, running away from the Pinkertons from the caves to the woods. To the final battle on top of the mountain. Even though I knew that Arthur it was still tough see him go, I really miss playing has him and will probably until I'm done with the game, it's just not the same. I regret not doing as many activities with Arthur as I could have done.

 

The epilogue provided a bit of a happy ending. Getting to know a bit more of John - even though we already got to know a lot during the game - and how the ranch came to be. I kept expecting Ross to show but he never did, just a scene during the credits, and Charles and Sadie to die, but fortunately that didn't happen either. Now I get to play the Endless Summer and discover even more of the world. I haven't visited the first game towns such as Armadilo, Thieves Landing or McFarlane' s Ranch. On that note I must say that at least Blackwater, the great plain and Tall Trees are exactly as I remembered down to the roads and the trees, I'm happy they just didn't use the same name and build a different map

 

 

Some questions. I completed the game today:

 

  • I owned a serious amount of money with Arthur. Is there a way to get this money back?
  • Can you continue to upgrade satchels like you did with Pearson?

 

Thanks!

 

1. Short answer is no but you won't need to worry with money after epilogue

If you don't mind spoilers on Epilogue

[spoiler=987465165987]During the epilogue you'll find Dutch's camp along with all the money lost during the Blackwater job. Around $20.000,00 I think.

 

2. I'd like to know that myself. I read on Reddit that you can buy Satchels with money from Fences after the game is over but I can't confirm that yet.

Edited by jvaferreira
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It's been about 24 hours since I wrapped up the story. I'll share some general thoughts!

 

If you're reading this, and haven't beaten the game, I will be using spoiler tags. At all. If you get spoiled, that's on you :p

 

 

(Courtesy space between warning and spoilers)

 

 

- What a great game! Easily my GotY 2018, which says a lot considering how good GoW4 was.

- Not sure if I like it more than RDRI. I suppose it's tough to compare the two as they were released so far apart.

- Story started off a bit slow for my liking. And I wasn't as easily attached to Arthur as I was with John. But that definitely changed as time went on.

- The epilogue was a little slow as well. Maybe a few missions too long, but worth it for the satisfying conclusion!

- Dutch shtick is suppose to get annoying, but it shouldn't be getting annoying in the first two chapters haha. He was pretty great overall. In a love to hate heel sort of way.

- Micah's a dick.

- I love how many of the characters from RDRI got expanded upon.

- After beating the story, I went back and watched scenes from RDRI. Luckily there are videos focusing on certain characters (

,
,
). I insist you watch the Dutch one in particular. The consistency is pretty amazing! And even better when Dutch, Bill, and John have their same VAs.

- I figured Arthur wasn't long for this world. Neat twist that it was TB he got from the debt mission. I loved how Ch6 was essentially going around and redeeming Arthur. It made his end so much more sad :(

- I definitely expected another protagonist swap, and that John was going to take back his protagonist role. I briefly thought maybe they were going to have us control Sadie, but I'm glad to be playing as John again. Almost as if it's a joke after all the complaints of having us switch to Jack.

- Saw Mary-Beth in Valentine. By the train station. In case anyone wanted to see her again. In the credits, I thought I saw Tilly was in Saint Denis? I should find her and anyone else roaming around.

- There's definitely enough to go on for a RDRIII set after RDRI. You got Jack, Sadie, Charles, among others alive and well. It's just, how Western could it really be in such a year?

- Speaking of which, I'm glad some actually survived. I fully expected the RDRI crew to be the only survivors.

- YNNEL

- TEERG

- Why didn't Edgar Ross talk more? He may as well have been a nameless goon. Would've liked to have seen more of him considering his importance in the previous game.

- I honestly was surprised at how tame the game was. Normally Rockstar is a bit over the top with characters, sexual references, cursing and so on. Off the top of my head, I can't even remember a single f-bomb. Maybe one instance of nudity (not counting horse balls). Just thought that was interesting.

Edited by mcolwander90
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I was checking RDR wiki page and the name of the last mission, The Last Enemy That Shall Be Destroyed got me thinking.

 

Who is this man? The more obvious answer would be Agent Ross, the man you're tasked to kill in this mission. But could it be actually Jack Marston, the last living member of Dutch's gang?!

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I was checking RDR wiki page and the name of the last mission, The Last Enemy That Shall Be Destroyed got me thinking.

 

Who is this man? The more obvious answer would be Agent Ross, the man you're tasked to kill in this mission. But could it be actually Jack Marston, the last living member of Dutch's gang?!

 

It's a bible reference- "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death"

 

I finished the game on Sunday morning, absolutely stunning from beginning to end. I couldn't remember everything about the original, so other than Bill, Dutch and the Marstons, I had no idea how everyone else would turn up.

 

Arthur's death is probably one of the most beautiful scenes in gaming history, the game did a fantastic job of making me care immensely about him, even more than I cared about John. I'm really glad Sadie and Charles survived too, two of my favourite companions.

 

I wish that Arthur could have survived somehow, but I guessed pretty early on that he wouldn't survive and you'd play as John at the end.

 

I could probably honestly say that this is the greatest game I've ever played.

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Finally completed main story, including epilogues. Amazing. I had a feeling Arthur would die especially after he gets TB. Before the game released somebody suggested it would be cool if it ends with Arthur dying and you playing as John, and I totally agreed. And it is cool... but I grew attached to playing as Arthur.

 

I also thought I had the game spoiled for me in meme form on Facebook when the meme said John Marston dies in RDR2 (I saw this well before I reached the point of Arthur getting TB). The only way that would have been possible is if Arthur somehow betrays the gang/John, and leads the law to John where they kill him in the end of RDR1, maybe with Arthur nearby observing the event. I am very hazy on the RDR1 story, having played it 8+ years ago, but that would have been an interesting, albeit dark, ending.

 

I was hoping there would be more info on why John wants to kill Bill Williamson (in RDR1). It is probably explored in RDR1 but like I said its been so long since I played. I also didn't remember that Dutch was in RDR1.

 

But the ending of Chapter 6 was amazing, and honestly the part that got me most was when Arthur's horse dies and he whispers "thank you," to it.

 

I am kind of annoyed that, I somehow got Arthur's satchel with all his valuables, but no ingredients (herbs). I had a ton of herbs :mad:

Edited by Poindexter2291
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You can't. It disappears after chapter 4

 

right, all the meat i hunt is mine now :applause:

 

Anyhow, anyone else laugh out loud when the doc says you have tuberculosis and then happily light up his pipe?

 

As an asthmatic, i found this amusing if a little offensive. Thank god we've moved on a bit.

Edited by Ezio760
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Okay, I am almost end game, just finished My last Boy mission in Chapt. 6, but I generally know everything because, and this is obviously not going to be a popular opinion here (I seem to have a few of those) lol, I know everything that is going to happen, because I didn't care at all for the story and watched some spoilers here and there. I had no expectations and I was still disappointed, I feel like going prequel was a bad idea. We know how this ends before even starting the game. We know most of the gang will die, especially the protagonist, VERY PREDICTABLE. I feel like they constricted themselves with the going backwards with the story instead of a different story altogether. I really feel like they could have made this way better,

I am saying the things that bothered me the most here:

 

- First, and probably the worst thing done in this game that really takes away from it, is how slow the missions are. Start mission, have a dialogue between 3 - 10 minutes depending on how far the real mission is, do what you're supposed to do, ride back and have another conversation. You could probably count on both hands the missions that start immediately. One word for this R*: BORING.

(I know this should be in the bitching thread, but this tremendously affected how much I enjoyed the game) And I want to make why I didn't like the game that much clear, because I actually want to see if others felt that way or not.

 

- For me, the story was very repetitive and all over the place. You LITERALLY do the same things over and over again, attempt a heist, fail miserably, have 1 or more gang member killed or captured, relocate camp, if a gang member was captured go save them. And all over the place because it takes so much time to resolve things, took long to kill Colm, and what is the point of Chapter 5, and so on.

 

- This is probably just me, but I never liked Dutch! I really didn't, almost from the beginning of the game, he feels to me like the kind of selfish person that only cares about himself. And the more I played the story, the more I hated him "just one more".

Last Chapter is all "All this doubting", "trust me", "Do you have my back", even though he is an idiot that never learns a thing throughout the whole game. He doubts Arthur and actually left him for dead in this last mission I did, and trusted Micah instead, I mean, how stupid can you be? Micah Joined you 6 months ago (beginning of game), and ever since then, you weren't able to pull off a single heist, and always had the Pinkertons on your ass, instead he doubted JOHN (after Saint Denis)!!! And then Arthur, or he wouldn't have left him for dead, is that how much you trust your "son", both of them had been in the gang since they were young. The logic is very weak to me.

Also, when the law is on you ass, you lay low, not draw so much attention that I believe

everyone found you at one point in the game lmao.

 

- Also hated Micah from the beginning and something felt off about him, maybe that's intended though, but I really hate the idea that there was a spy in the gang throughout the whole game. Another stupid thing is when he himself says that there is a rat at the camp in the mission where you kill the rich man, literally after you've killed the woman that snitched on you in Saint Denis and got a few gang members killed, which was also weak. I am so pissed at how poorly some main plots in the game are made.

Besides, what was Micah's goal from taking so long in snitching?

He could have literally led the Pinkertons to any of the camps and had the whole gang wiped out in as early as Chapter 2. Why the long game? Dutch already trusts you, and even if he didn't, you know where the camp is, he even leaves a while after you get him out of the prison in Strawberry, that was a perfect opportunity. Who cares if they know it was you, they would be surrounded and realistically no one would survive. Will finishing the rest of the game help me make sense of this?

Edit 2: So they turned Micah after Chapt. 5, makes more sense, still, a lot of illogical things.

 

- Colm O'driscoll was in most of the game as a big antagonist, and then he conveniently gets caught be the law with you having ZERO hand in this. I mean he killed Sadie's husband, he killed Dutch's wife/girlfriend, and kidnapped Arthur and almost killed him, killed poor Kirean which really pissed me off, is that not enough to retaliate? That was VERY disappointing for me, though truth be told, that moment in his hanging mission where he saw the three of them and knew he was going to die was priceless and made me overlook the previous point. Though again, he captured Arthur to set up Dutch where he could have easily captured all of them when he got Arthur who was supposed to give them cover.

 

- I liked Sadie, but they had her story resolved stupidly late in the game, should have been done sooner imho. Should have been after Arthur was caught to make and have them help capture him, but again, there are so many things at play in the story, yet, you don't feel like anything is happening!

 

- Chapter 5 was a waste of time walking simulator.

 

- I liked Arthur, but I didn't get attach to him because he didn't feel very "honorable" to me, he didn't have any redeeming qualities. Also, he told everyone to go, he should have followed his own advice, he had a few months to live (if not less), go live with the woman you love or at least go away, he is seeing how crazy Dutch has become, and how he's questioning his loyalty, even Arthur himself questioned the reason why he's still loyal and what good it did for him.

I didn't like the TB idea, you really had to give him a disease to make him repent? He doesn't even die from it. Also, I really didn't care when for the disease, I knew they were going to kill him one way or the other, though the idea and the reason behind it felt really insulting to me. Let's give him a disease so he would make amends for all of the people and lives he ruined.

 

I really wanted to LOVE this game, but R* disappointed me yet again, oh well.

 

Edit 3: So you were surrounded by Pinkertons, still Micah ended up being the main reason for your death, and Dutch walked away from you and left Arthur to die alone. The insult, R*, the insult is REAL.

 

Edit: Oh, God, this turned out to be a long post :o

Edited by H!NO
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I heard that if you go back for the money instead of with John after your horses die (which, by the way, was absolutely heartbreaking since it was the white Arabian I had since chapter 2) then he ends up dying. What happens to the epilogue and the post-story free roam then if John and Arthur are dead?

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