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The difficulty according to the Guides, shouldn't be according to difficulty threads


BrokenLegacy--
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So I've been thinking about this for awhile. When an author writes a guide, they are usually going in blind with a little help from YouTube, ect. It is in my opinion that the trophy difficulty for guides should be a according to the guide writer, NOT the difficulty thread. First off, there are games that are rated a 2 or a 3 out of 10, like PVZ Garden Warfare while the game is a lot harder these days now that the only people left on the servers are people who have played the game to death and are no longer beginners. Also star skip consumables have become more rare since the release of GW2.

 

I mean, what is the point of difficulty rating threads if everyone is just going to vote 1 or 2. Garden Warfare is definitely not a 2. A 2 out of ten is basically a game like late shift, or the bunker. A game that plays itself for the most part, and requires only a little work following a guide. A 1 would be a telltale game.

 

Which is my point. Usually the difficulty rating threads are wrong IMO. We should leave the difficulty rating of a game up to the guide writer, somebody who went in the game, and basically became an expert at it while completing the trophies. I trust the guide writers on this site far more than the trollers in the difficulty threads who always vote 1-2 or 10 for every game they play.

 

 

My main point:

 

I love it even more when both difficulty thread and personal estimate by the guide writer are included. So should this become mandatory for guide writers to include their own personal estimate? I think it should at least be looked into.

Edited by BrokenLegacy--
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So I've been thinking about this for awhile. When an author writes a guide, they are usually going in blind with a little help from YouTube, ect. It is in my opinion that the trophy difficulty for guides should be a according to the guide writer, NOT the difficulty thread. First off, there are games that are rated a 2 or a 3 out of 10, like PVZ Garden Warfare while the game is a lot harder these days now that the only people left on the servers are people who have played the game to death and are no longer beginners. Also star skip consumables have become more rare since the release of GW2.

 

I mean, what is the point of difficulty rating threads if everyone is just going to vote 1 or 2. Garden Warfare is definitely not a 2. A 2 out of ten is basically a game like late shift, or the bunker. A game that plays itself for the most part, and requires only a little work following a guide. A 1 would be a telltale game.

 

Which is my point. Usually the difficulty rating threads are wrong IMO. We should leave the difficulty rating of a game up to the guide writer, somebody who went in the game, and basically became an expert at it while completing the trophies. I trust the guide writers on this site far more than the trollers in the difficulty threads who always vote 1-2 or 10 for every game they play.

 

 

My main point:

 

I love it even more when both difficulty thread and personal estimate by the guide writer are included. So should this become mandatory for guide writers to include their own personal estimate? I think it should at least be looked into.

 

The majority of guides that I read will have their personal estimate, and a link to the forum poll estimate. If they don't have a personal estimate, you could always ask them? Although, every bodies personal estimate will be different.

 

Also with the forum poll estimates, you can look at the poll and get a rough idea of what the difficulty should be. You can also read the comments which address their score, and if anyone has voted 1 on a very hard game, it will probably be mentioned, or you can just ignore it altogether.

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You can't rely on just one person's view. Whilst you'll inevitably have troll votes, the polls tend to even themselves out and give you a good enough idea. An idea as best you can anyway when personal skill is involved.

 

I tend to just read the most recent page or two to see what people have said.

 

Also thanks for the sig, Jack. Now I have to be even more careful using this forum at work. :whistle:

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Guide authors may be starting a game blind, but by the time it's written, they know the game well and have the majority of the trophies - which is a requirement for writing a guide, mind you.

 

That MP trophies usually get harder as time passes by is what I view as common knowledge. It's too much work to constantly update every single guide that contains MP trophies due to a shrinking playerbase, when all it takes is a little research by yourself.

 

As mentioned, authors tend to rate their work fairly accurate, and so does most of the people who take their time to vote - at least in my experience.

 

If that's not enough for you, take the time to read through the input of those who've commented and reasoned why they've voted as they did.

 

The current system is most likely better than the former, since if you would only go by a single person's vote, the better the gamer he or she is, the difference could be enormous for a more casual one.

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I assume that the difficulty of a platinum is determined by playing the game WITH a guide

 

A guide writer who has to figure out the game for themself will always have a harder time that everyone else who plays the game with the assistance of the guide

 

A community poll showing the average difficulty therefore will be a more accurate measure of the game's difficulty than the individual guide writer's opinion

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I can understand everyone here saying the polls are usually a good way to view a games expected difficulty. I'm just saying it would be good to have the author of a guide include their own expected difficulty along WITH the polls. Authors of guides are supposed to be experts at the game, seeing as how they're writing the guides to begin with. They can update that much more quickly than the polls will show expected difficulty if the difficulty changes. The game I gave in example in the OP is a perfect example.

 

My thread title is wrong but I think the main point of my OP is something worth talking about.

 

This:

"

My main point:

 

I love it even more when both difficulty thread and personal estimate by the guide writer are included. So should this become mandatory for guide writers to include their own personal estimate? I think it should at least be looked into.

"

Edited by BrokenLegacy--
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And if the guide writer's estimate is the same as the average, why be redundant and write the same thing twice?

 

Because difficulty can change over time with new free dlc or updates that make a game easier or harder (new gear, changed trophy requirements like in rocket league, ect) and the difficulty polls would take forever to update, while if an author decided to update their difficulty all they have to do is change one number.

 

I mean, how hard would it be for a guide writer to include. I'm not asking them to rewrite their guides. The point of all of this is I'm trying to improve the site, and it seems like new ideas are always shot down too quickly or are changed (see trophy tags).

 

It certainly couldn't hurt, could it?

Edited by BrokenLegacy--
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Because difficulty can change over time with new free dlc or updates that make a game easier or harder (new gear, changed trophy requirements like in rocket league, ect) and the difficulty polls would take forever to update, while if an author decided to update their difficulty all they have to do is change one number.

 

I mean, how hard would it be for a guide writer to include. I'm not asking them to rewrite their guides. The point of all of this is I'm trying to improve the site, and it seems like new ideas are always shot down too quickly or are changed (see trophy tags).

 

The option is already there to include. Some people do, some people don't. I haven't because it makes more sense to me to have the cumulative opinions of hundreds or thousands of people over my personal opinion. Difficulty is subjective. Some people find certain games easier than other people do. Maybe you have a better sense of a game's difficulty than I do.

 

I do agree that how the trophy tags was dealt with was stupid. The whiniest bitch usually wins.

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The option is already there to include. Some people do, some people don't. I haven't because it makes more sense to me to have the cumulative opinions of hundreds or thousands of people over my personal opinion. Difficulty is subjective. Some people find certain games easier than other people do. Maybe you have a better sense of a game's difficulty than I do.

 

I do agree that how the trophy tags was dealt with was stupid. The whiniest bitch usually wins.

 

Fair enough.

 

Yeah that whole situation was messed up. :whistle:

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What the hell, one for the road:

 

So I've been thinking about this for awhile. When an author writes a guide, they are usually going in blind with a little help from YouTube, ect. It is in my opinion that the trophy difficulty for guides should be a according to the guide writer, NOT the difficulty thread. First off, there are games that are rated a 2 or a 3 out of 10, like PVZ Garden Warfare while the game is a lot harder these days now that the only people left on the servers are people who have played the game to death and are no longer beginners. Also star skip consumables have become more rare since the release of GW2.

 

I mean, what is the point of difficulty rating threads if everyone is just going to vote 1 or 2. Garden Warfare is definitely not a 2. A 2 out of ten is basically a game like late shift, or the bunker. A game that plays itself for the most part, and requires only a little work following a guide. A 1 would be a telltale game.

 

Which is my point. Usually the difficulty rating threads are wrong IMO. We should leave the difficulty rating of a game up to the guide writer, somebody who went in the game, and basically became an expert at it while completing the trophies. I trust the guide writers on this site far more than the trollers in the difficulty threads who always vote 1-2 or 10 for every game they play.

 

So here's some math I did in 2015 regarding how much weight the troll votes actually carry:

 

https://www.playstationtrophies.org/forum/feedback/263823-make-trophy-difficulty-polls-public-keep-voting-honest.html?#post5087187

 

I highly doubt troll votes have gained any more weight since then. This is an active community filled with people who actually want to vote legitimately, and they easily outnumber the trolls who throw 1s at hard games and 10s at easy games.

 

As for Garden Warfare specifically, I think you're overlooking that maybe it was a 2 when the people who were voting 2 voted. It might be harder now but it was much easier back then. Those aren't troll votes, those are people who voted honestly based on the experience they had at the time. I think Mellenthin hit the nail on the head. Everyone expects that games with multiplayer trophies will have a shift in difficulty as time goes on. Either the playerbase will shrink to those who are experts and it gets a lot harder, or it will completely disappear which makes things a lot easier as all you need to do to boost is have everyone try to play at the same time.

 

One more point: you say Garden Warfare isn't a 2 or a 3. You say you trust the author of the guide more than the "trollers" who voted in the difficulty thread. So I looked at the Garden Warfare Roadmap and this is what I found:

Estimated trophy difficulty: 3/10 (Personal Opinion) (Platinum Difficulty Rating)

In the game you picked as an example of why you want the author's own estimate to be mandatory in roadmaps, the author's own estimate is actually the only thing provided without clicking to a new page. And you've already said that you think 3/10 is too low for this game.

 

It seems to me your actual problem isn't troll votes, or the lack of being able to find the author's personal opinion. It seems like you're just annoyed that games like Garden Warfare, where it's become harder to get the multiplayer trophies due to the dwindling fanbase, still show a low difficulty number in the roadmap. And I think you just need to keep what Mellenthin said in mind. Read the guide, look at what the multiplayer trophies require of you, and consider whether or not that's going to get easier or harder based on the age of the game.

 

I can understand everyone here saying the polls are usually a good way to view a games expected difficulty. I'm just saying it would be good to have the author of a guide include their own expected difficulty along WITH the polls. Authors of guides are supposed to be experts at the game, seeing as how they're writing the guides to begin with. They can update that much more quickly than the polls will show expected difficulty if the difficulty changes. The game I gave in example in the OP is a perfect example.

 

My thread title is wrong but I think the main point of my OP is something worth talking about.

 

This:

"

My main point:

 

I love it even more when both difficulty thread and personal estimate by the guide writer are included. So should this become mandatory for guide writers to include their own personal estimate? I think it should at least be looked into."

 

I don't think there's a problem with including the personal estimate from the author. But again, I don't think that's actually the answer to your problem here. You seem to think that the author would be on top of their own personal estimate as time goes on, but I don't think so. The author already has those trophies. It's incredibly unlikely that they're going to be trying to earn them again, meaning they won't directly experience any shift in difficulty, which makes it incredibly unlikely that they'd change their personal estimate on their own.

 

If you really want the number updated, you'll probably have to just contact the author and ask them to update it. And if they aren't around or don't reply, you can try asking the guide team.

Edited by mjc0961
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What the hell, one for the road:

 

 

 

So here's some math I did in 2015 regarding how much weight the troll votes actually carry:

 

https://www.playstationtrophies.org/forum/feedback/263823-make-trophy-difficulty-polls-public-keep-voting-honest.html?#post5087187

 

I highly doubt troll votes have gained any more weight since then. This is an active community filled with people who actually want to vote legitimately, and they easily outnumber the trolls who throw 1s at hard games and 10s at easy games.

 

As for Garden Warfare specifically, I think you're overlooking that maybe it was a 2 when the people who were voting 2 voted. It might be harder now but it was much easier back then. Those aren't troll votes, those are people who voted honestly based on the experience they had at the time. I think Mellenthin hit the nail on the head. Everyone expects that games with multiplayer trophies will have a shift in difficulty as time goes on. Either the playerbase will shrink to those who are experts and it gets a lot harder, or it will completely disappear which makes things a lot easier as all you need to do to boost is have everyone try to play at the same time.

 

One more point: you say Garden Warfare isn't a 2 or a 3. You say you trust the author of the guide more than the "trollers" who voted in the difficulty thread. So I looked at the Garden Warfare Roadmap and this is what I found:

 

In the game you picked as an example of why you want the author's own estimate to be mandatory in roadmaps, the author's own estimate is actually the only thing provided without clicking to a new page. And you've already said that you think 3/10 is too low for this game.

 

It seems to me your actual problem isn't troll votes, or the lack of being able to find the author's personal opinion. It seems like you're just annoyed that games like Garden Warfare, where it's become harder to get the multiplayer trophies due to the dwindling fanbase, still show a low difficulty number in the roadmap. And I think you just need to keep what Mellenthin said in mind. Read the guide, look at what the multiplayer trophies require of you, and consider whether or not that's going to get easier or harder based on the age of the game.

 

 

 

I don't think there's a problem with including the personal estimate from the author. But again, I don't think that's actually the answer to your problem here. You seem to think that the author would be on top of their own personal estimate as time goes on, but I don't think so. The author already has those trophies. It's incredibly unlikely that they're going to be trying to earn them again, meaning they won't directly experience any shift in difficulty, which makes it incredibly unlikely that they'd change their personal estimate on their own.

 

If you really want the number updated, you'll probably have to just contact the author and ask them to update it. And if they aren't around or don't reply, you can try asking the guide team.

 

I guess I assumed the guide writer would at least take into consideration, the free updates and stuff if they did include their own personal estimate. Garden Warfare was just a general example of an outdated difficulty rating however IMO its about a 4 now, so its not too far off. When I was playing it it was a 3 overall but there hadn't been any posts in about a year.

 

But yeah, mellinthin had some good points and so do you. I guess I just need to do more research before starting a multiplayer game or a game that has had major updates since release.

 

Edit: I guess I could just look at recent feedback in the difficulty thread and say fuck the overall score, but that seems to defeat the purpose of those threads. For instance what if people just vote and don't bother posting. I guess there is just no perfect way to do it. :(

 

That's my last edit, I swear. :p

Edited by BrokenLegacy--
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Because difficulty can change over time with new free dlc or updates that make a game easier or harder (new gear, changed trophy requirements like in rocket league, ect) and the difficulty polls would take forever to update, while if an author decided to update their difficulty all they have to do is change one number.

 

I mean, how hard would it be for a guide writer to include. I'm not asking them to rewrite their guides. The point of all of this is I'm trying to improve the site, and it seems like new ideas are always shot down too quickly or are changed (see trophy tags).

 

It certainly couldn't hurt, could it?

 

That is definitely a good example right there. When Rocket League added those modifiers, it made getting the platinum a much faster task to pull off.

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I've never written an official guide before so I never knew you had(?) to put down the thread poll result difficulty. Similar to Sellers, I would write down both the thread result and my own personal opinion

 

No one should be taking guide ratings concretely anyway. Even with it being an estimate:

 

Mortal Kombat 9 is a perfect example of this, being rated 9/10. This platinum isn't necessarily difficult, but a grind. Another game rated 9/10 would be Lost Planet 2, and these two games are certainly not equal in terms of difficulty - the latter (objectively) being at least a 10/10 due to its WR requirement

Edited by Aela
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I'm not sure how many others do this, but when I open the difficulty poll threads, I don't even look at the poll. I just read through the thread for different peoples' opinions and ratings. If it's a hugely popular AAA game with 20-odd pages, then I'll probably just read the last 3 or 4 and see if patches or DLC or whatever has affected anything.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I'm not sure how many others do this, but when I open the difficulty poll threads, I don't even look at the poll. I just read through the thread for different peoples' opinions and ratings. If it's a hugely popular AAA game with 20-odd pages, then I'll probably just read the last 3 or 4 and see if patches or DLC or whatever has affected anything.

 

I too read several posts, but I do that before voting as it helps me determine if I'm way off base because I'm happy to have a game done or because I had a terrible time with one trophy and it is stuck in my craw as it were.

 

Regarding the actual topic, I've been writing a number of guides lately and make sure to put my estimate as I find it helpful when that personal estimate is there on guides I use.

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