Call of Duty: Black Ops
Gamescom 2010: Call of Duty: Black Ops Interview - Josh Olin, Treyarch Community Manager
Written Monday, August 23, 2010 By Richard Walker
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Following the launch of Infinity Ward's Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, which smashed every sales record known to man and went on to earn the title of “biggest entertainment launch of all time”, Treyarch is taking the reins of the CoD franchise once more having returned to World War II for World at War back in 2008.

This time though, the weight of expectation on the development studio is unprecedented, prompting Treyarch to shift the action to a new location and era in Vietnam, presenting the opportunity for a host of fresh deniable ops, an arsenal of new weaponryand more.

We caught up with Treyarch Community Manager, Josh Olin, at Gamescom last week to ask a few questions about Call of Duty: Black Ops and how the shadow of MW2 has influenced development. Find out what measures Treyarch is taking for Black Ops' multiplayer, the advantages of adopting a Hollywood approach for single-player, the game's new RC cars, zombies and much, much more.

First off, is there going to be a multiplayer beta for Black Ops?

It's possible. We're just not sure. We've had betas in the past, we know the value of a beta, we know the risks of a beta and we also know it's popular and that people like that, so if we do decide to do it and you want to be the first to know, follow the game on Twitter or via the Facebook page. Those are the best ways to get that information.

Do you think that betas are becoming more essential in this day and age? Modern Warfare 2 was criticised for its glitches and people exploiting the system, for instance.

I don't think they're critical. You're never going to get enough beta testing in-house and once the game is released, if a million people play one hour each game, the game's already got more testing than any QA (quality assurance) department can ever do and so some people might say that's a reason to have a beta. A lot of the hacks, glitches and exploits that were found with MW 2 weren't necessarily because it was a bad product or because it didn't have a beta. It was just because that's when all the console modding happened about a year, a year and a half ago. So, World at War was as vulnerable to those things, it just didn't seem nearly as prolific because Modern Warfare 2 was the game to play in 2009, right?

Console modding – and I don't want to get too into techno speak here – is basically hacking the system and then gaining access to system-level variables that developers never intended for people to have access to, and we always assumed we were safe because the platform was safe and secure, but it got cracked. With Black Ops, that's all behind us. We know how they did that, so we have worked in preventative measures for all the current-day modding geeks were using to exploit the Call of Duty games. Then moving forward of course, they're very intuitive, they're very creative, smart people, these hackers, so they'll probably find some way around the blocks and if they do we've built-in security tools to allow us to enforce our policies and moderate our leaderboards and lobbies, so it shouldn't be as big an issue with Black Ops.

Can you tell us roughly how many hours of gameplay the single-player campaign will have?

No, because it's just not done yet, but there is a sweet spot. We don't want the game to be too long, because then people lose their attention span and then they just never finish it. They put it down or by the time they get round to it, they can't remember how it started. So there's problems in having a game that's too long and of course the problem with having a game that's too short, is people will feel like they didn't get enough, but there is a sweet spot where you want people to feel like they want more, but they also feel like they experienced a great story. That's the sweet spot we're going to try to hit and whatever the length ends up as, we're going to try to tell the perfect story that we want to tell, with all the right pacing. Pacing a story is critical and that influences and is influenced by the length of the game.

The RC cars seem to detract slightly from the traditional Treyarch Call of Duty game, so how did they come about conceptually?

There are a lot of these really unique weapons that were made available to these Black Ops teams, so you see that in movies all the time where it's a camera attached to a car and it blows up, right? It's in Bad Boys 2 and plenty of movies do that sort of thing, and that does really happen. They do attach explosives to remote-controlled cars and that happens in war. They attach explosives to much worse things than RC cars, believe me. So, it was a fun way to do some vehicle elements in multiplayer and of course the Prestige Edition item that we made out of that - announced just last week – has a fully-functioning RC car - minus the explosives - that you'll be able to drive around and it has a 200-foot range and it wirelessly transmits video and audio back to the receiver, so it's the true surveillance vehicle.

Activision came to us and said that we're doing another Prestige Edition for Black Ops and we need to find something in the game that's cool, that people would want, so we toyed around with a lot of things. We were going to go with one of those little remote-controlled helicopters at one point, as there's a helicopter in the game, but it just wasn't as cool and we looked at the modified RC car we had in the game and thought this would be a cool toy. How many people would like to drive the car into another room and... Who knows the kind of nefarious purposes we're going to find for this car, but it should be interesting because it's got video. People can create all sorts of different viral videos with all that stuff.

Every year these editions seem to be getting progressively crazier, so how are you going to one-up Black Ops' remote-controlled car next time you make a Call of Duty?

That's a good question. Maybe we'll package explosives with it, I don't know. A working crossbow.

There's a lot of new stuff for multiplayer...

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of new stuff for multiplayer. There's a huge, huge new multiplayer mode that I can't talk about, but we'll reveal it on September 1st. I think people are going to be very surprised with what we unveil. They're not going to be expecting this deep a multiplayer, because frankly we've never had a dedicated multiplayer team like we've had on this project.

In 2008 when we made World at War, we worked on three blockbuster games that we released that same fall - Quantum of Solace, Spider-Man: Web of Shadows and World at War - so we had about 250 developers at Treyarch working on three games. Now we have all of our developers working exclusively on Black Ops, so fundamentally from day one, we've had a dedicated single-player team, dedicated multiplayer team and dedicated co-op team each focusing on their own discipline. It's kind of like having three games in one. If any one of those teams can ship a blockbuster title in 2008 and it's just one of three components in Black Ops, it's like, how big is this game going to be?
Will Black Ops' co-op be similar to World at War's?

It's four-player online co-op or two-player local splitscreen. That's pretty much all I can say, but it's going to be a fan favourite.

Will the World at War zombie maps packaged with the Hardened and Prestige editions be available in Germany this time?

To my knowledge, yes they will, but you'll probably want to verify that with your local PR. It's not Nazi Zombies any more, and I think that was the problem last time – the Nazi portion of that. So, even for World at War, the second map pack released for it had Shi No Numa and those were Japanese zombies, so it just didn't make sense to call it Nazi Zombies any more. So in the PR for the Hardened and Prestige zombie maps, we just call it World at War 'Zombies'. Shi No Numa will be one of those maps, and that has Japanese zombies in it too. It's not just German zombies now.
Do you think there's more pressure than ever to deliver now, given the success of Infinity Ward's Modern Warfare 2?

Yeah. The biggest entertainment launch in history, right? With every Call of Duty game, the goal is to ratchet that up more and raise the bar one level higher, so that's a big ratchet, but we're in a good position to do just that. But I've got to defer to you guys though to let us know if we've made a great game and ratcheted the bar up a level.

Do you think it's fair to say that Black Op's single-player is more Hollywood, with more explosions and action?
It's very cinematic, so in that sense, yeah. We're using technology for performance capture, which is the same as what James Cameron used for Avatar. We went to the same motion capture studio called the House of Moves in Los Angeles. So, we used that stuff and it's really the first First-Person Shooter to implement all of that technology, because it's all so new – it only came out about a year or so ago – we have that in the game and it's allowed our character's performances to really breathe on-screen. So, in that sense, again yes it's kind of like Hollywood where we're casting actors that can perform their movements, their facial expressions and their voice, all in one take. We've gone for actors with theatre backgrounds so they can really read well to the people at the back of the theatre.

It's impressive. The quality of the performances you get is really unlike anything you'll have seen before. I think in 'Victor Charlie', you might have seen a little bit of that where they come up out of the water and kill those two VC and they're searching the bodies and talking, and you have the syntax and just before you go in and plant the C4, that whole dialogue exchange where they're reading off each other and giving each other subtle nods and hand motions, all of those things are perfectly in-sync with the voice and face. Previously, with World at War where we had to record the voice and face separately from the body, some things would fire off slightly too soon and those little things do kind of flatten the performance, but we don't have that problem any more.
With so many powerful weapons at your disposal and the ability to fly a tooled-up helicopter, are we going to see more destructible environments in Black Ops?
Yeah. I think in Victor Charlie you probably saw that you can shoot a rocket at one of the buildings and the building sort of erupted. If you shoot the M202 (rocket launcher) across and take out the anti-aircraft gun, you'll probably blow up the building too. Those are cinematic set-pieces. We're not making it fully-destructible, it's just not what Call of Duty is. But any set-pieces where things should be destructible, they will be. It has to have that immersion, but we're not making a game where a grenade blows a fist-sized hole into something. There are other games for that. In Payback though, with the helicopter, everything is destructible. Everything. Every hut, every house, every pipeline, every bridge, every tree, because like I said, it's fun and it made sense that everything in that level should blow up.

Does it get hard making these action set-pieces, because you don't want to be repeating the same scenarios over and over?

Yeah, it does. That's part of why it was important to pick a genre and an era that was fresh and new, because we need to have these new things that we can do. And it's also really hard from a technical standpoint to keep making it bigger and badder, because the hardware isn't necessarily expanding when you look at the consoles. It takes a lot of mathematics back at Treyarch to re-factor all their engine technologies and processes to make those huge vistas and huge explosions that you saw in Payback. That was not an easy engineering feat.
So has the era freed you up a bit to take a few more liberties and go crazy?

Definitely. Purely from a black ops standpoint where those guys are CIA and all of those things that we're showing you were all deniable operations, so they're things you don't even know about, they were all classified. It gave us a lot more creative liberties. If you're creating a World War II game, you can't rewrite history and with World War II, most people know what did and didn't happen. With this one, not a lot of people know the stories, so it allowed us a lot more creative freedom.
Do you think that there's more of a need for authentic character performances, as people now seem to increasingly pick up on the most minor of details?
Yes. Especially in a game like Call of Duty where it's cinematic and it's not like a sandbox shooter. It's definitely a scripted game from start to finish, but people come to expect that from CoD. There are a lot of other story-driven games out there like Uncharted 2 that are really big, cinematic experiences as well, but I think it all depends on the kind of game you're looking at.

Can you tell us more about Black Ops' video editor, or is that another thing we'll see more of on September 1st?

That falls under the September 1st thing, but of course the teaser trailer has been ripped apart and dissected and right at the end, you guys accurately picked up that there's some sort of recording stuff in the game and I can just tell you that it's a big feature and you're going to learn a lot more about it on September 1st.

Were the Call of Duty subscription rumours frustrating for you guys?

That's why I diffused it when those rumours really started to get out of control and everybody started clamouring onto it, I just had to get a tweet out about it. So, I talked to our PR guys and they were like, “No. No no no no no. You do not have to pay to play Black Ops multiplayer. You buy the game, you put in the disc and you can play multiplayer all you want.”

Have you planned any downloadable content yet?

No, we're not planning it. We're going to support the game aggressively post-release and it's Call of Duty. I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we're going to do DLC, but there are no plans, nothing is confirmed yet, we don't know what's going to be in it. What we're doing right now is just heads-down, focusing on our number one priority to make sure what's in the box is the best possible thing we can make. The whole team is dedicated to that right now.

Is it at all possible that Black Ops will support DLC for the game's other modes outside multiplayer?

Anything is possible. With World at War we did co-op stuff as well, so that's another possibility. There's a lot of stuff we could do through DLC, but who knows what the future holds with that.

Going back to the subscription stuff for a minute, a lot of analysts are saying that it might be a viable business option to charge for multiplayer in the future. Do you see that happening in the future from a personal standpoint?

I think it's happening already. I mean, you look at Xbox Live and PlayStation Plus, that's what you do, you've got to subscribe to that service in order to play the game online. It works differently for the PC of course, but that stuff already exists and I think at the end of the day, where the corporate guys decide where that money is going to go doesn't matter. We're here to make a great game at Treyarch, and at the end of the day, the consumer ultimately isn't going to care who is getting what cut of the money, the point is they have to subscribe. Subscribing to use a service, to get a service is nothing new and is something that exists right now.

What's your personal opinion on EA's 'Project Ten Dollar' initiative to combat sales of used games?

It'll be interesting to see how it works. Used games do pose a problem to the development community. As we become more and more prolific and our industry grows, I think we need to have more standards and policies in place to ensure that the creative authors of that content are paid their dues.

Do you think that Activision and Treyarch will ever introduce something similar?

Not for Black Ops. I'm sure somebody at Activision is looking into that. It's a big business decision, but we're just looking to make games. It's a very compartmentalised process to be honest. Activision does their thing and they do their thing really well - the publishing and marketing stuff – but I like to think that we do our thing pretty well too, which is just making games.

How are pre-orders for Call of Duty: Black Ops?
They're really strong actually. They're outpacing Modern Warfare 2's pre-orders. We're outpacing every other Call of Duty's pre-orders to date. There's still months to go before release, so of course the total number is going to get bigger. At this point in every Call of Duty's release cycle we're ahead in pre-orders though.
That must be pretty exciting...

It is. Yes, it is. We really like to see that!
Call of Duty: Black Ops is due for release on November 9th, 2010.


User Comments
Forum Posts: 0
Comment #1 by MRMBR
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 01:03:07 PM
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SCREW call of duty, im tired of the bullshit online, medal of honor here i come =)

Forum Posts: 380
Comment #2 by Motorizer17
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 01:32:03 PM
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Cant wait for this multiplayer reveal, but I'm a little concerned he wasn't exactly denying subscription for a future call of duty

Forum Posts: 381
Comment #3 by shadow_rider456
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 01:44:10 PM
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SCREW medal of honor, im tired of the bullshit spawning worse than mw2, call of duty black ops, here I come.

c wat i did thar?
Keep your opinions to yourself.

Forum Posts: 4536
Comment #4 by Dangles
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 01:56:09 PM
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just read through this and I like what I read.

Forum Posts: 3340
Comment #5 by micco12
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 02:11:32 PM
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 @1 You're talking truth (medal of honor will be slightly better). Black ops will rock too though.

Forum Posts: 1196
Comment #6 by HairySpud
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 02:43:09 PM
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Err... people are allowed to say what they want. It's a forum where people discuss games, and so people are going to give their opinions.

If you get offended by other peoples opinions then maybe you shouldn't visit this site at all.

Forum Posts: 145
Comment #7 by Let Us Dream
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 02:48:04 PM
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tl;dr - Community manager making excuses about MW2s failure and confirming what was already known.

Nothing new here guys.

Forum Posts: 36
Comment #8 by jphw
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 02:49:57 PM
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Medal of honor is 9000X better than MW2 only thing that will make Black Ops worth getting is Zombies not really a game i will get for full price.

See what i did thar everyone give opinions because it helps.

Forum Posts: 152
Comment #9 by Roosky1
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 02:55:08 PM
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@2 haha @5 have you played the game yet? no? then shut up, ok?

Forum Posts: 35
Comment #10 by K-Arch94
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 03:18:56 PM
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@8 How can you judge black ops on the failures MW2 when its developed by completly different people for fuck sake. Wait till it comes out then you can judge it :/ And Zombies is defo worth full price on its own got hours of enjoyment out of it.

And tbh medal of honor is definatly not as good as call of duty and i have enjoyed both before anyone says anything.

Forum Posts: 1070
Comment #11 by Sly-Creed
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 03:29:48 PM
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I am sure that there will be new zombies, mainly because when asked about it, they said its going to be a fan favourite, and I am sure every one loved Nazi Zombies, so we can expect Zombies in this one.

Forum Posts: 1
Comment #12 by vipermarum
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 03:38:34 PM
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who cares about medal of honor its just a rip of bad company 2 which is am awersome game at least black ops is trying to do something new and diffrent and improve its self

Forum Posts: 10
Comment #13 by DeBunez
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 04:15:03 PM
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@3 you sir are an idiot and furthermore a dick. See where i come from there is a freedom called freedom of speech and freedom of press which entitle people to their goddamn opinions. So FUCK OFF!

Forum Posts: 381
Comment #14 by shadow_rider456
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 04:21:43 PM
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@6 - Yes, this is a forum, and I realize that there are opinions. But bashing the game is unnecessary, no matter how bad it is. Gamers these days are so ungrateful. Sure, a little constructive criticism now and again isn't so bad, but when you start saying how "gay" or anything on that matter, I see it totally unnecessary, I'm sorry to say.

Forum Posts: 34
Comment #15 by gazzer09
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 04:24:49 PM
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cant wait for black zombie ops , medal of honor is ok i know of a few prople who played the beta they said its not bad , but no one has said its amazing, "looks average to me" , cod black ops with zombies is going to be awesome ,

Forum Posts: 381
Comment #16 by shadow_rider456
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 04:26:19 PM
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@13 well you "sir" are as immature as they get. What possibly to do you get out of the comment you wrote towards me. Go ahead, state your opinions.

Forum Posts: 25
Comment #17 by BUDRACIN
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 04:39:15 PM
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i played the medal of honor beta and it is just like bad company 2..medal of honor will never be better than any call of duty game.

Forum Posts: 3377
Comment #18 by guillermo
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 06:45:21 PM
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awwwwsome! ilove it!

Forum Posts: 147
Comment #19 by kingbigums
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 06:52:29 PM
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medal of honor that old new i got tired of that game when it was on ps2 this game looks beast it has a good chance being better than battle field bad company 2

Forum Posts: 348
Comment #20 by alan_rae
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 06:59:23 PM
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what i want to know is do u have to get the hardened or Prestige editions of the game for the zombies as there was nothing sayed aboot the standerd copy of the game lol and why come into this posting and read it if your just totally moan about how bad a game is that is not even out yet come on grow up for fuck sake

Forum Posts: 2864
Comment #21 by Sin-City-Big-Boy
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 07:09:50 PM
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Still going end up like MW2...boring.

Forum Posts: 330
Comment #22 by crotchbuffet87
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 07:36:43 PM
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Im buying this. I dont give a fuck.

Forum Posts: 133
Comment #23 by BlazezRB
Monday, August 23, 2010 @ 10:30:29 PM
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No it will not, IW isn't making this game.

Forum Posts: 2864
Comment #24 by Sin-City-Big-Boy
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 01:13:25 AM
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The fact is that no matter what they add or change this is still another COD game. I'm not saying that the game will suck or fail, since I never played it yet. I just don't see anything new about online. I just hope they fix most of the MW2 problems. Take the noobs perks out, no hacks , ETC... in make it a good game.

Forum Posts: 0
Comment #25 by daktrgonzo
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 06:24:30 AM
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Call of duty exists thanks to Medal of honor...Moh1,Moh2,Frontline was better then any COD they gonna make

Forum Posts: 6
Comment #26 by melocholly
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 06:25:00 AM
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this is the Treyarch CM not the IWard CM/you fail!
MW2 is the highest selling game even in dlc and most played online, so it has no failures/you fail
I love the seperation amongst gamers nowadays, especially with FPS's. High Five to the rest of the sane gamers who are getting, MOH & COD.

Forum Posts: 138
Comment #27 by thebestub3rn00b3r
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 08:20:03 AM
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I love how people are bashing the game already...

Forum Posts: 1778
Comment #28 by Blessorship
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 08:54:47 AM
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Despite reading all the hate comments afterwards, I thought this was a great article. Nice one Richard.

Forum Posts: 1
Comment #29 by s0odamnfly
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 09:58:04 AM
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This one gonne be epic

Forum Posts: 3
Comment #30 by LEsfahani95
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 10:20:22 AM
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why on a call of duty post are people talking about MoH? if you dont like COD then go and play with yourself at the videos of BFBC and MoH!

Forum Posts: 2
Comment #31 by Frylock
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 11:26:06 AM
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all I know is it better have zombies.

Forum Posts: 117
Comment #32 by adp88888
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 12:30:06 PM
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I just don't get you guys... If you don't like COD or MoH games just don't play them, nobody is forcing you by holding a gun to your head. The only true way to say which game is better is to look at the sales stats and until the game is out there is no way anybody can say it will be crap or not especially when there were no beta. You can look at trailers all you want but that does not mean shit... Let's just wait and see, time will tell if it's good or not...

Forum Posts: 3
Comment #33 by badboicj
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 02:36:43 PM
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WOW. IDK how anyone can compare piece of donkey crap game like Medal of honor to Black ops. black ops so far looks better than MW2. as long as tactical insertions are taken out everyone will love Black Ops. "medal of honor is best" LMFAO!! im gonna stop laughing at that hilarious comment before I piss myself

Forum Posts: 3
Comment #34 by badboicj
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 02:43:13 PM
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by the looks of it COD black ops has sold more pre-order units than medal of honor will ever sell. i believe COD will sell 10 to 15 times more. XP

Forum Posts: 0
Comment #35 by Blackhawk199511
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 03:59:31 PM
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Moh will be BBC2 all over again, Cod Black ops will be something different! O.O Oh yeah baby

Forum Posts: 47
Comment #36 by Brewster3477
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 06:06:36 PM
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Black Ops looks promising and it wont fail and u cant compare it 2 MW2 its made by a different developer i mean it looks great and it look like it will be better then MoH because there set in different time periods with Black Ops being in The Cold War era and MoH being modern so stop comparing the 2 and lets just talk about how great this game looks :D

Forum Posts: 37
Comment #37 by QuantumKnight
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 @ 07:38:32 PM
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#32 I give you all the thumbs ups I can give, including the ones on my feet. You are right!! Idk y people bash a game way b4 it even comes sad.

I'm getting the game because I want to play with my friends and I love old war games. I want to have fun playing a game,not bitch about it.

Forum Posts: 10
Comment #38 by ViratAhuja
Wednesday, August 25, 2010 @ 03:10:01 AM
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Meh just another COD Game...

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Game Info


US November 09, 2010
Europe November 09, 2010
Japan November 18, 2010

Resolution: 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
Sound: Dolby Digital 5.1
Players: 1-4
Online Players : 2-18
ESRB: Mature
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