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Old 07-08-2009, 10:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Alright. I'll just have to slap the 360 and tell it to quit bitching. Thanks guys.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:53 AM   #22 (permalink)
 
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when i access the router through the web browser, i cant find the the tab that says anything about DMZ?
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Old 08-07-2009, 05:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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ive just done this but i get a dns error on my ps3, any ideas? im on a wireless network, and i have power flushed the ps3 and router, not at the same time though if that makes any difference?

on the connection status, everything is normal, except the NAT type says failed
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTISYOURNEMESIS View Post
Hi,

First great help Alayes,

I would just like to add that if you do not want to go down the route of DMZ than you can go to PortForward.com - Free Help Setting up Your Router or Firewall and there is list of most makes and models of routers, here you can find your router and select default guide.

This will show you how to setup port forwarding on your router,just forward all ports.

Basically the same as a DMZ but your still behind a firewall.
some people are scared of DMZ even though you are safe well your PS3 is anyway

also make sure you forward for TCP and UDP Protocols.

once again great help Alayes
I would need to disagree with, well, all of the above. I'll take each section and define why it is incorrect.

"This will show you how to setup port forwarding on your router,just forward all ports."
-No, don't. Why would you? What is the point? All online games only use UDP connections so that it doesn't require a 3-way handshake and thus overhead. Plus, the odds that you would need to use 65000+ ports to play an online game is ridiculous. But if you still want to believe it, I would suggest only forwarding UDP 1024+, but even then I still don't recommend.

"Basically the same as a DMZ but your still behind a firewall."
-No, you are not. Forwarding all ports means all connections are allowed. Sure you can say you are behind a firewall all you want and technically, you are, but you are still allowing everything. Thus you are physically behind a firewall, but it isn't doing anything.

"also make sure you forward for TCP and UDP Protocols."
-Again, don't. Ever hear of the term DDoS'ing? This is commonly done using UDP packets since those packets don't require a response. I will attempt to explain this so the non-networkers of the forums can understand (no I don't mena to belittle anyone, its just not common knowledge, if I sound insulting I apologize). If you place your PS3 in a DMZ then UDP packets are able to reach it. Now, lets say some DDoS punk somewhere decides to attack a full subnet (can be a lot of hosts) and your public IP happens to fall in that range. Well now you are conviniently forwarding every packet that is being sent by this person to your PS3. Most packets are fragmented (i.e. not complete packets) and are commonly discarded. But now think of millions of these packets being sent on a per minute basis to your PS3 unit. Do you really think the PS3 can handle this type of traffic? My guess is that it could choke from attempting to process and this could lead to other physical damages. Its like putting a fat guy through the eye of a needle, some things were just not made big enough to handle the load.

As for this guide increasing the inet connectivity speed of your PS3, I hate to say it, but no it does not. Moving your PS3 from behind the firewall/NAT to a DMZ/NAT does nothing but open access inbound. You DO NOT need access opened inbound to play. Your PS3 initiates all the connections in an online game. Thus..outbound packets (PS3 sends data to PSN).

Your router still has its state tables, and NAT translations to perform whether you are in the DMZ or not. So when it all comes down to it, it is how quickly your router (or other NAT'ing device if PS3 is not connected straight to ISP's CPE) can negotiate NAT translations and state tables.

I really hate to be the bearer of bad news and will probably just be flamed for this post, but might as well be hated and speak the truth instead of loved and provide information with no statistics on it actually helping.

So yeah, take this information as you wish, I just wanted to make sure people understood what it was they were doing. If you wish to learn a bit more or wish to chat networking we can take it to PMs or elsewhere. And yes, I work as a network/security engineer, I do these things everyday. (might explain by bitter/sarcastic nature at times )
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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So sorry for double post.

Much like mjc, I actually use a QoS statement for my gaming consoles. I run all my consoles wireless and the QoS statement wraps the packets and gives them a higher priority than standard traffic (i.e. like web surfing or IMing).

I also use different vlans (virtual lans) for gaming wireless, standard wireless, gaming wired (nothing as of yet until I get the house wired), and standard wired. This helps keep traffic from someone using the computer to check email from interfering with my gaming. Granted all the traffic goes through a single device out to the net, this is where QoS becomes important.

So yeah, multiple virtual LANs to keep systems seperate (last thing I want is for someone to pull down a stupid virus that spams out traffic to the entire LAN), QoS at the edge, I also use a Juniper SSG20 as my gateway device (again, network/security engineer), so no linksys (which if you use I would recommend flashing the firmware over to DDWRT), and no netgear (damn POS devices). But never upgrade to anything like a Juniper or Cisco due to cost and the fact that if you don't know how to configure them properly to suit your needs, well then they are just basically an expensive paperweight.
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Old 08-07-2009, 10:41 PM   #26 (permalink)
 
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cheers for the info sdreaper

how do you use QoS? i couldnt find it on my router (netgear), is it available to everyone or do you need some extra software/
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Old 08-09-2009, 02:48 AM   #27 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by sdreaper View Post
As for this guide increasing the inet connectivity speed of your PS3, I hate to say it, but no it does not.
I hate to say it, but you're not entirely correct.

This has the potential of solving multiple problems concerning internet connectivity, and this has been a proven and tested fact. Games such as CoD4 and Mercenaries 2 definitely benefit from these settings, and on multiple consoles won't even work without applying them. (mine included)

Not to mention, on certain setups, this will increase performance and reduce issues. This is not just a theoretical guess, but a proven and tested fact.

Hence mentioned, often, that this guide makes no promises, but might provide a potential increase and/or solution to some problems you might have. It's not a miracle drug, but it's definitely no placebo either.
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Old 08-09-2009, 03:14 AM   #28 (permalink)
 
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cheers for the info sdreaper

how do you use QoS? i couldnt find it on my router (netgear), is it available to everyone or do you need some extra software/
QoS is built on standard on (I think) every netgear router. It has been a while since I touched a netgear but I do believe it is usually under:
Advanced Setup -> QoS Setup.

This may vary by model, but I am pretty sure that is its location on WGT624 devices (4port wired/wifi router).

And Aiden, as for proven, I only accept that it is proven when I see performance graphs for both inbound and outbound. Dun want to start an argument, I just don't think enough testing has gone into it to guarantee that it is "proven".
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Old 08-09-2009, 03:21 AM   #29 (permalink)
 
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You don't have to use it, so it's alright. This method has been known around CoD boards, and other PS3 boards as well, and it works for some people. Again, it's not a miracle drug that simply works for everyone. It treats specific symptoms, and it improves certain setups; always influenced by thousands of variables.

I'm not going through hours and hours to take performance videos and graphic representations. It takes 10 minutes to try it, and if it solves problems you had, or increases your connectivity speed, then it worked. If it doesn't, then it didn't do anything for you. Plenty of people have had a positive effect, and that's what matters in the end.
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Old 08-09-2009, 10:26 AM   #30 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by sdreaper View Post
I would need to disagree with, well, all of the above. I'll take each section and define why it is incorrect.

"This will show you how to setup port forwarding on your router,just forward all ports."
-No, don't. Why would you? What is the point? All online games only use UDP connections so that it doesn't require a 3-way handshake and thus overhead. Plus, the odds that you would need to use 65000+ ports to play an online game is ridiculous. But if you still want to believe it, I would suggest only forwarding UDP 1024+, but even then I still don't recommend.

"Basically the same as a DMZ but your still behind a firewall."
-No, you are not. Forwarding all ports means all connections are allowed. Sure you can say you are behind a firewall all you want and technically, you are, but you are still allowing everything. Thus you are physically behind a firewall, but it isn't doing anything.

"also make sure you forward for TCP and UDP Protocols."
-Again, don't. Ever hear of the term DDoS'ing? This is commonly done using UDP packets since those packets don't require a response. I will attempt to explain this so the non-networkers of the forums can understand (no I don't mena to belittle anyone, its just not common knowledge, if I sound insulting I apologize). If you place your PS3 in a DMZ then UDP packets are able to reach it. Now, lets say some DDoS punk somewhere decides to attack a full subnet (can be a lot of hosts) and your public IP happens to fall in that range. Well now you are conviniently forwarding every packet that is being sent by this person to your PS3. Most packets are fragmented (i.e. not complete packets) and are commonly discarded. But now think of millions of these packets being sent on a per minute basis to your PS3 unit. Do you really think the PS3 can handle this type of traffic? My guess is that it could choke from attempting to process and this could lead to other physical damages. Its like putting a fat guy through the eye of a needle, some things were just not made big enough to handle the load.

As for this guide increasing the inet connectivity speed of your PS3, I hate to say it, but no it does not. Moving your PS3 from behind the firewall/NAT to a DMZ/NAT does nothing but open access inbound. You DO NOT need access opened inbound to play. Your PS3 initiates all the connections in an online game. Thus..outbound packets (PS3 sends data to PSN).

Your router still has its state tables, and NAT translations to perform whether you are in the DMZ or not. So when it all comes down to it, it is how quickly your router (or other NAT'ing device if PS3 is not connected straight to ISP's CPE) can negotiate NAT translations and state tables.

I really hate to be the bearer of bad news and will probably just be flamed for this post, but might as well be hated and speak the truth instead of loved and provide information with no statistics on it actually helping.

So yeah, take this information as you wish, I just wanted to make sure people understood what it was they were doing. If you wish to learn a bit more or wish to chat networking we can take it to PMs or elsewhere. And yes, I work as a network/security engineer, I do these things everyday. (might explain by bitter/sarcastic nature at times )

I have to agree with you DMZ are not safe, it's like standing behind a door that is open (the door being the firewall ).

You only use port forwarding if your using and ftp server, so someone can reach the port your using from the outside.

If your getting bad internet connections and speeds, doesn't have to be the settings, it could be that the firmware on the router needs updating or you need a new router, or the servers at the other end are loaded, or simply your ISP is doing some maintainance or even your geographical location.

Alot of ISP's now are doing a peak time, for me means that between 4pm and 12am my speed is reduced, not just me everyone, so everyone can get online (so they say, it's like me having a porsche driving down the motorway 70mph, but staying behind a robin reliant so the drive can get there the same time as me at 30mph )

Also you don't want UPnP on, many times I have had to fix someones router because an outside source has rewriten something, the latest one I fixed was everytime you tried to search the net you would only get 10 hits, even though you know there are millions, and everytime you would try to goto a site from the search it would take you to a sales page. But as soon as I turned off the UPnP and corrected the changed setting, it hasn't happened again.

If you want added security, only allow devices that you have entered their MAC address into the router, this even stops unwanted WiFi. Because a lot of people still only use the original username and password, which anyone can use if they know what make of router your using.

Bottom line is, this is my solution, may not be everyones but a solution for someone to try, good luck
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Last edited by JPClyde; 08-09-2009 at 10:32 AM.
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