Happenstance Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) I thought I should make a thread about getting under 1:20 on the boat stage, since it's where a lot of people can potentially struggle. Out of the posts here, and the boards on gamefaqs, this and the hospital basement is where most people hit problems. For myself, this was the most difficult thing to do in the game for me. You have to maneuver the analog sticks in such an awkward way, it's hard to give a descriptive, detailed strategy to complete this successfully. But what I wanted to do here is give all the information that I found, either by messages with fellow gamers, or just found in random parts of the intraweb. So after a countless amount of attempts, I FINALLY managed to get my 10 star rank, and my platinum trophy. My boat stage time was 1:15, similar to those others that have posted their times. Although I do not feel completely confident I can replicate it without issue, I do feel I finally understand how to approach it so I can at least get in the 1:20 range (before I had problems getting anything under 1:30). After nearly giving up on the boat stage on Hard, I finally realized what the problem was, and why there is no information about it (it's probably hardly recognized); you need to make sure you are consistent with your rowing. Getting the turn at the start done quickly is generally pretty simple with some practice, but it's going forward that is the real trick. While you're practicing, take note of how James is rowing. If at any time while you are rowing forward, if he turns his head to the right or left, that means you are wasting your time. Although it is virtually impossible to notice, any time James turns his head, that means your rotation is out of sync significantly enough, which ends up turning your boat. In other words, even if your turn is immeasurable, you're wasting a few seconds where you could be moving forward. You can "save" the stroke however; I had James partially look to the left but I was able to correct it so he made a "forward" stroke. Now obviously, this lies the real problem. How can anyone go consistently forward and go at such a speed that you're making it in time? It's hard to describe what really goes on while rotating the sticks, but it does seem to be somewhat forgivable in making perfect rotations. What I meant by "sync" in the previous paragraph is not that both sticks are moving completely perfectly together at the same exact speed, it doesn't have to be. I think it has more to do with "are you completing a rotation with both sticks?" It's something that you have to pay attention to and just get a feel for while you're practicing. Before I actually go into what I did, let's make sure everyone's set up appropriately: Make sure you have auto-run turned on. Go to the "extra" options where bullet adjust is and turn walk control to "inverted." Start out by making a third separate save after the Eddie fight on Hard, do NOT overwrite your second save file before Eddie (assuming that's where you saved the second time). This is the file you'll use for practice. Use a stop watch. You don't need to time yourself until you feel comfortable with at least turning and getting in line with the light. There are stop watches found on the internet (Online Stopwatch) or there might be one on your cell phone (if you have one). Being quick in the initial turn is important, and you should expect to spend somewhere in the 5 second range turning. To turn you should rotate both sticks counter-clockwise. You will notice you will turn incredibly fast. You should only complete around ONE "row" animation, by the time the boat "evens" out you should be close to straight on the light. It can get kind of weird here however, because it's difficult to say when to actually stop. Sometimes you can go a little over 1 row (never do 1.5 though) sometimes 1 is enough. This is the first thing you have to kind of get a feel for, but what I did on my attempts was look at the front of the boat the more the tip of the boat turns is a good indicator of how fast you're turning. You need to make sure you're pretty much spot on with the light. This is tricky, but this is the second reason why you need to practice turning. Some other posts suggest "it doesn't have to be spot on" and that much is true, it doesn't have to be perfect, but it doesn't leave you that much room. To try to think of it numerically; it's not asking for 100%, it's asking for around 95%. If you go too far, you will see the light move off your screen, and you will eventually hit an invisible wall. Again, this just takes some practice to see how close you really need to be. How I positioned my controller So I read a variety of different things, but I followed something close to biggbuu0426's 10 star guide on gamefaqs (GameFAQs: Silent Hill 2 (PS2) 10-Star Ranking FAQ by biggbuu0426). He writes: "Now after experimenting for a while I found that this is the best way to go about this part. Lay the controller in your lap, and instead of using your thumbs to rotate the analog sticks, actually use your hands and grip the top of the analog sticks and rotate. For me it was a lot faster because I could rotate the analog sticks faster." That is kind of what I did. But to be more detailed, I'll give some more information. Make sure you are sitting normally, with your feet on the ground. As soon as you get done turning, place the controller in your lap. I had the right side of the controller resting in the space between my legs (I'm right-handed, so I needed more stability on the left). You'll notice that there is a bit of a stability issue with keeping it in your lap; as you start rotating at a faster pace, the controller has a tendency to slide forward or to the side, do whatever you can to keep that to a minimum. Gripping the sticks Use both your forefinger (your finger closest to your thumb) and your thumb to grip the sticks; forefinger on the top part, thumb on the bottom part. You may need more support while rotating so your grip doesn't slip, and I used my middle finger for extra support (it depends, it may not be necessary). To do this, as you have the sticks gripped, maneuver your middle finger to either support your thumb at the joint closest to your fingernail, or support your forefinger by placing your middle finger around the same area of your forefinger (either at the fingernail or the joint). While rotating, do not worry about going incredibly fast to the point where you think you're breaking the controller, try to balance speed and consistency. Watch how James is rowing, if you see he's making a proper "forward" row, try to go faster. If you see him turning, immediately steady your pace and try to correct it. Final Words This is just what I did when I finally managed it, to the best of my ability to describe it. I do believe you can rotate the sticks while holding the controller normally (there have been reports of that) but I find it difficult to maintain a sufficient speed by doing that. The ultimate word on the subject is you need to find a way that you're comfortable with, so you can go at a decently high speed while continually moving forward. I will place other information I have found in later posts. This post has currently taken up a bit too much of my time lol and I need to make sure I get some permission to share some information I have received in private messages. This is the kind of thing where "any strategy goes" so if anyone wants to share their experience, I'm sure it will be appreciated by any readers. Even if you think it was really strange for yourself, you never know, there might be someone out there that gets more use out of it than other methods. Edited April 11, 2012 by Happenstance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEDEURM Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 The boat max speed is 3.5 meters/second. You can reach 4 meters/second in hard mode (according to the official guide...). You can compare that with your stat screen to see if you're rowing the good way. Anyway, better leave the trophy fresh to that special try. You will be sure to succeed if you pop it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMinderbinder Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I know this sounds weird, but I have to put my entire concentration into moving the sticks, such that I actually can't even look at the screen. I have glanced up briefly, and I have noticed the James struggling animation sometimes, so I do know what was meant in the original post. However, I gnerally can't properly work the sticks when I watch the screen. I hate hate hate these accomplishments where you are beating the hell out of your controller for no other reason than the programmers wanted a "physical" endurance challenge as opposed to a reaction/dexterity/coordination challenge. The absolute worst case of this in my recollection was surviving the torture sequences in Metal Gear Solid 1 in Hard Mode - you had to press the X button (or was it Circle?) approximately 8-10 times per second for about 20 seconds. Lord, I am so glad that game doesn't have trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEDEURM Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) I know this sounds weird, but I have to put my entire concentration into moving the sticks, such that I actually can't even look at the screen. I have glanced up briefly, and I have noticed the James struggling animation sometimes, so I do know what was meant in the original post. However, I gnerally can't properly work the sticks when I watch the screen. Ah ah, I do the same. It's easier when you look at the controller (especially my left hand...) I did 1:21 on my last run on PS2 a few weeks ago. Edited April 11, 2012 by DEDEURM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMinderbinder Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I did 1:21 on my last run on PS2 a few weeks ago. Those are the WORST! Even with practice, my success rate is only about 1 time in 20 or so (maybe worse), and most fails now wind up in the range of 1:21 - 1:25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 I know this sounds weird, but I have to put my entire concentration into moving the sticks, such that I actually can't even look at the screen. I have glanced up briefly, and I have noticed the James struggling animation sometimes, so I do know what was meant in the original post. However, I gnerally can't properly work the sticks when I watch the screen. I'm glad you brought that up, I actually did the same. When I ended up getting better times I did a combination of both looking at how I was rotating (your consistency does seem to improve when you're looking at it) and checking the screen. There's a few posts out there that say that "boat speed is irrelevant" and well, it is and it isn't. It is "maximum speed" that is listed, not your average speed. However, it does kind of indicate whether or not you're doing things properly. I think the base minimum anyone can manage under a 1:20 is around a 2.5 max boat speed. I was consistently hitting a 2.2 max speed when I was getting a 1:30 average. When I got below that, my speed varied in the 2.8-3.2 range. I would also like to point out that you do not have to make wide rotations, they can actually be somewhat small, and even kind of irregular. You do not have to circle the edge of the perimeter of the area where the sticks are (if that makes any sense). I forgot to put in "turn auto-run on" in my list, I think I should go fix that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyoysh Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 May this sound weird, but i actually put my controller invert 180deg!! this mean originally i need to rotate my left stick counterclock and my right stick clockwise, now i rotate left stick clockwise and right stick counterclock! i found i can rotate them easier this way.... hope this will help some weirdo like me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEDEURM Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 May this sound weird, but i actually put my controller invert 180deg!! this mean originally i need to rotate my left stick counterclock and my right stick clockwise, now i rotate left stick clockwise and right stick counterclock! i found i can rotate them easier this way.... hope this will help some weirdo like me!! Not weird, funny. I will give this a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyoysh Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Not weird, funny. I will give this a try. It may help, since i completed my 10 stars using this tactic:applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 It may help, since i completed my 10 stars using this tactic:applause: Yeah that's great. I tried the same in some of my attempts, I did some really strange stuff. I held it 180, backwards, sideways, I think you'd be surprised at what I tried lol I think I tried just about every combination anyone could think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyoysh Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Yeah that's great. I tried the same in some of my attempts, I did some really strange stuff. I held it 180, backwards, sideways, I think you'd be surprised at what I tried lol I think I tried just about every combination anyone could think of. different way always work for different people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMinderbinder Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 different way always work for different people! Are you saying there's somebody out there who could do it using, say, their genitals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YenRou Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Taking a break for today. This is depressing. I have mastered the whole game including Eddie battle and I am kept away from the platinum by a stupid boat race. -_- Are you saying there's somebody out there who could do it using, say, their genitals? Might try it out tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Taking a break for today. This is depressing. I have mastered the whole game including Eddie battle and I am kept away from the platinum by a stupid boat race. -_- Might try it out tomorrow. Hey you never know, this is Silent Hill 2 after all, that method may not be that far from the truth. But I was having the same issue YenRou, so don't feel like you're the only person out there. I pretty much had Eddie mastered to the point where I could kill him with my eyes closed. Taking a break might help a bit. I stopped for about a week actually, I started up FF13-2 and got the plat, then went back to SH2 and finally managed to get it. People out there have wrote that the best thing to do when you get frustrated with something is to just back away from it, even if it's really tough to. It sort of gets to a certain "stress threshold"; when you're trying to accomplish something, stress is actually good for you, but too much throws you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YenRou Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) This is bullshit who the fuck thought of this piece of turd. WTF seriously I don't know if Hijinx fucked it up so badly or I just suck. Every time I start the boat section James decides to wait for 5 seconds before he actually starts to row the boat. 5 seconds gone every single time just because the game decides to screw me over. Fuck this bullshit. I FUCKING HATE THIS GAME. Tried my controller with the fighting analog sticks and it doesn't work for this game. It worked with MGS2 why not now? All it does is walk at the speed which mannequins do. This game is so fucked up beyond belief. Edited April 14, 2012 by YenRou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEDEURM Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Every time I start the boat section James decides to wait for 5 seconds before he actually starts to row the boat. 5 seconds gone every single time just because the game decides to screw me over. Fuck this bullshit. Yeah, James is damn slow and very awkward... Firing the shotgun takes ages, the first shot is always a missfire when you aren't facing straight the enemy... Same with rowing... This guy seriously needs vitamins. There are monsters everywhere and he took all his time to fire a shot... Anyway, that's the way he is, it's part of the gameplay. Edited April 17, 2012 by DEDEURM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YenRou Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Yeah, James is damn slow and very awkward... Firing the shotgun takes ages, the first shot is always a missfire when you aren't facing straight the enemy... Same with rowing... This guy seriously needs vitamins. There are monsters everywhere and he took all his time to fire a shot... Anyway, that's the way he is, it's part of the gameplay. I love Silent Hill and I played every single game but it pisses me off when someone says: "SILENT BATTLE SYSTEM DOESN'T SUCK! IT'S JUST YOU WHO NEEDS TO GET USED TO IT AND IT'S AWESOME M'KAY?!" Really? I don't know how impeding the player with an awkward battle system and shitty controls makes a game good. Fanboys really need to stfu and get over their nostalgia-boner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMinderbinder Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Silent Hill was supreme in atmosphere and style, but for survival horror mechanics, the Silent Hill series is a poor imitation of the excellence of Resident Evil. Nobody can deny the suck-ass ability of Harry/James/Heather to move/react/fire/reload/row/etc. Still, we love the series because Silent Hill is suck an incredible place to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEDEURM Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Silent Hill was supreme in atmosphere and style, but for survival horror mechanics, the Silent Hill series is a poor imitation of the excellence of Resident Evil. Nobody can deny the suck-ass ability of Harry/James/Heather to move/react/fire/reload/row/etc. Still, we love the series because Silent Hill is suck an incredible place to be. I agree, I guess the smoothless controls is here to confirm the lack of experience of the main characters... Kind of. And James doesn't seem to be scared (cut scenes and other weird situations). Anyway, a more reactive character would have been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetra Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) I agree, I guess the smoothless controls is here to confirm the lack of experience of the main characters... Kind of. And James doesn't seem to be scared (cut scenes and other weird situations). Anyway, a more reactive character would have been better. He gets a letter from his dead wife. I understand why he is not that scared anymore. And his "Yeah, I'm outta here!" turn when facing Pyramid Head during the final apartment scene seems pretty scared or at least confused. He also hides in the closet when he faces Pyramid Head the second time, so before the final apartment scenes. Of course he does not want to get killed either, but I guess he is confused indeed. However he figures out what the summoned Silent Hill monsters and world mean so it is no wonder for me that he does not run around scared all the time. Edited April 18, 2012 by Cetra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEDEURM Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/members/dedeurm-albums-sh2-picture27003-boat-lamppost-zone.jpg You have to be careful with the light. It must be above the James right or left shoulder pretty much (light+halo in the red zone on this picture). If not, don't waste your time, you will hurt the invisible wall without reaching the pier... All the trick is on your first turn to face the light. Then, when rowing forward, if James is looking back once, it's lost too... That means you've screwed your pad turning. This is insanely hard to succeed that crap. Some luck is required and be prepared to try and retry it thousand times... Edited April 22, 2012 by DEDEURM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerkrazy Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Can't...take it...anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morralee Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 i just managed to do this a few mins ago and got my 10 stars...it really is ALL about the first turn...iv found if you dont get that pretty much dead on you can kiss 1:20 goodbye because by the time your boat stops rotating you should already be rowing forward and once you have started that james has a spaz attack if you try and turn again and will refuse to go anywhere. Its so frustrating to know you have the game down and the only thing stopping you is a ridiculously annoying segment made worse by clunky controls. So im not sure if it will actually help anyone but here is how i did it. When i make the first turn i always put the palm of my hand on the controller over both sticks and rotate in a counter clockwise motion for 3.5 seconds...4 if james doesnt start rowing straight away because he cant get his fat arse in the boat. Immediately start your forward motion before the boat is done turning and hope the boat continues to swing towards the light. if you over or undershoot then try correcting mid paddle (sometimes worked for me). A lot of guides recommend putting the controller on your legs and using a couple of fingers to row forward but i personally found i got really inconsistent circles (james kept looking over his shoulder rather than rowing). It was wwwaaayyy easier just to use my thumbs and rotate the sticks right the way around the edges. If you wanna do this you need to find the sweet spot on the controller so your thumbs dont constantly slip. For me it was just below the center of the sticks so part of my thumb was over the edge of the bottom of the sticks (if that makes any sense?). I also moved my arms back and forward but im not sure that actually helped lol...i really feel for everyone suck on this part but wish you the best of luck guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerkrazy Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 if james doesnt start rowing straight away because he cant get his fat arse in the boat. Hehe, i've noticed this to. Sometimes he does this weird sitting animation. Decided to try again tomorrow, because my thumbs aren't taking it anymore. I can't do the rowing correct without using my thumbs. Glad to hear u made it. Hopefully i get lucky tomorrow. p.s Does it really matter how fast u do the spinning with the sticks or can I just use a steady consistent motion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YenRou Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hehe, i've noticed this to. Sometimes he does this weird sitting animation. Decided to try again tomorrow, because my thumbs aren't taking it anymore. I can't do the rowing correct without using my thumbs. Glad to hear u made it. Hopefully i get lucky tomorrow. p.s Does it really matter how fast u do the spinning with the sticks or can I just use a steady consistent motion ? Speed and consistency both matter. And to the above posters, as long as you row forward really fast, 3+ m/s there is still room for adjustment and you can turn mid-way. I did it and got 1:18:94. Close but proves that it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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