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God, the Wolves storyline in New Game+ is heartbreaking.


Lemmerman

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[spoiler=1]Replaying the part of the game where you defeat the wolves after they kill Fyra is just unbelievable. I've got a soft spot for wolves/dogs/etc. as it is, but seeing them all beaten up and dying was just so sad, it actually made me cry. I know the P-33 storyline was just the same kind of thing, but the fact that it was animals just makes it all the worse. I can't believe that almost everything you do in the second half of the game has some kind of second side to it, it's just amazingly well thought out.

Edited by Lemmerman
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[spoiler=stuff]That wolf storyline isn't really as much of a "guilt trip" as it is just Cavia fumbling around.

 

It's a simple set-up: two opposing sides living in a barren environment that only has enough resources to support one of them, so they end up killing each other over it. It just escalates in Part 2 to the point where it needs to reach a conclusion. The NPCs in Facade know it as does their King, not enough to go around. The problem is just that the game sort of drops the ball and tries depicting the people of Facade as the real monsters in the situation, when its obvious that the wolves would have probably done the same if they fully realized what was going on (with the exception of Roc or whatever that main dog was called, they're all just stupid animals)

 

I didn't even find it that good of a story to begin with, it has almost zero connection to Nier at all. He's not the driving force behind it, the whole thing is mainly about the King and the Alpha Wolf's conflict and Nier just happens to be present during it. We learn that the wolves have been killing people as well, enough that this actually has to happen, so they're nowhere near as sympathetic as victims compared to P-33 or the Aerie (who are genuine victims of Nier's rampage)

 

In all of the other stories, we see just how much of a bloodthirsty sociopath Nier really is, but here it's just "Oh well, gotta get to work!" I see where they're going with it though. It's just kind of the weakest done.

 

Edited by Malice_Mizer
could be pretty spoilers
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[spoiler=stuff]That wolf storyline isn't really as much of a "guilt trip" as it is just Cavia fumbling around.

 

It's a simple set-up: two opposing sides living in a barren environment that only has enough resources to support one of them, so they end up killing each other over it. It just escalates in Part 2 to the point where it needs to reach a conclusion. The NPCs in Facade know it as does their King, not enough to go around. The problem is just that the game sort of drops the ball and tries depicting the people of Facade as the real monsters in the situation, when its obvious that the wolves would have probably done the same if they fully realized what was going on (with the exception of Roc or whatever that main dog was called, they're all just stupid animals)

 

I didn't even find it that good of a story to begin with, it has almost zero connection to Nier at all. He's not the driving force behind it, the whole thing is mainly about the King and the Alpha Wolf's conflict and Nier just happens to be present during it. We learn that the wolves have been killing people as well, enough that this actually has to happen, so they're nowhere near as sympathetic as victims compared to P-33 or the Aerie (who are genuine victims of Nier's rampage)

 

In all of the other stories, we see just how much of a bloodthirsty sociopath Nier really is, but here it's just "Oh well, gotta get to work!" I see where they're going with it though. It's just kind of the weakest done.

 

one of the things that make it so heart breaking is that the alpha wolf says in the beginning that he has faith in the humans and wants to see the best in them and then had his faith betrayed

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I wrote a review of this game on Amazon, and this was one of the strongest features IMHO. A game that rewards you in a subsequent playthrough by adding story elements has always been a great idea. I haven't always liked the actual game ("Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter" anyone?), but the idea is sound, if risky.

 

And yeah, I really liked the wolves story, as well as beepy's story.

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  • 1 month later...
one of the things that make it so heart breaking is that the alpha wolf says in the beginning that he has faith in the humans and wants to see the best in them and then had his faith betrayed

 

But that's just him, all the rest of the wolves want to attack humans and they do, considering five years ago, they had no problem constantly attacking me and Fyra when we were just trying to get to the Barren Temple.

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Yeah, the wolf keeps asking "what have we done to deserve this" but they let you know that the wolves have been attacking humans all the time.

 

While it's still kind of sad when you see them die, it's not like they are innocent or anything. And I cannot recall it was shown that the humans ever attacked them before they had acted as a threat to them, whenever you see them fight wolves, they do it because they consider them dangerous.

 

Maybe the tragedy lies in the fact that all of it only happened because they both didn't see that the other ones were only defending themselves or feared the opponent and if they had listened to each other, maybe there would've been a more peaceful way. But then again, the wolves did not act in pure self-defense (or at least it wasn't shown that way) and that made it a bit weird that you get to see the alpha wolf accuse the humans the way he does.

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Yeah, the wolf keeps asking "what have we done to deserve this" but they let you know that the wolves have been attacking humans all the time.

 

While it's still kind of sad when you see them die, it's not like they are innocent or anything. And I cannot recall it was shown that the humans ever attacked them before they had acted as a threat to them, whenever you see them fight wolves, they do it because they consider them dangerous.

 

 

So, we should support the absolute annihilation of animals like bears and sharks. After all, they attack people! :D

 

I'm just giving you hell, BTW.

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  • 3 months later...

the story is awesome and the way fyra died and everything was great and all, exept for one little thing... while everybody is fighting against the shades to survive, the city of facade's deadly sworn enemies are... wolves...

if they were to actually face shades, could they defeat them?

that... that always annoyed me. if all of the wolves were like roc or at least big and threatening it would of been ok I guess but they're just normal wolves...

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  • 1 month later...

Yeah it was one of the heart breaking parts, then again the whole new game + was heartbreaking namely this part "don't kill them they are only babies and don't know better!" that part made me really get disturbed fast.

 

But in the end who lives and dies doesn't matter at all because Neir did a nice job breaking it hero and according to the word of god [spoiler=death] Neirs actions have doomed the planet and every living thing on it to death.

 

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  • 3 months later...

You go through the first playthrough and just slaughter everything cause they're all just monsters, right? Then you get to the second playthrough and you can justify it because it's a war for survival, right? But by the time I got to the third playthrough, I kinda felt bad killing anything. I mean, basically, after you've killed thousands of enemies, the game tells you that it's all just a big misunderstanding, and nobody ever needed to die... and that you've been massacreing children and families, people that just wanted to live a normal life, and creatures that were just trying to defend their home and be left alone. Even if you want to, you've come so far (both as the character, and IRL as a player working towards all the endings and trophies) that you can't stop. You've given all of yourself to accomplishing this goal, to rescuing Yonah and seeing this war to it's inevitable, bloody end (and hoping the ending 'C' or 'D' is a happier one). There is no other option but to continue. You just have to keep killing no matter how repulsive it becomes...

 

... and that is brilliant game design. I've always believed that a good story is one that makes you feel something. Whether it's joy, anger, love, tragedy, anything - if you feel it, then the story is well done. Well, Nier is probably the saddest game I've ever played, but I think it was extremely well done. Consider the "real" Yonah's actions at the end - I think she's fully aware of everything that's been done in her name, and she can't bear the shame and sadness of it anymore - that's why she makes the choice that she does, and you can't really completely understand that until you've played through at least endings 'A' and 'B'. Nier is pure game-design genius.

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  • 3 weeks later...

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