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You have entered a spoiler tag free zone about the game Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. This thread has been created to discuss anything Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots related. You are permitted to discuss key plot points, boss battles and any part of the story openly without the use of SPOILER TAGS. Please note, this is not a "How do I..." thread. Any posts like this will be deleted.

 

In summary, this is a SPOILER TAG free zone. You do not have to use SPOILER TAGS within this thread. This thread is immune.

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Well to start off with as I posted in another thread 6 minutes before this one appeared lol

 

 

Okay so Ocelot used hypnotic suggestion to make himself think he was Liquid Snake... I get that part. Okay. That... actually makes sense. I never thought theyd ever come up with a logical explanation on that... but what I don't get about it is why? What was he hoping to accomplish in doing so? Did I miss something?

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Well to start off with as I posted in another thread 6 minutes before this one appeared lol.

 

I figured we should have a story discussion thread here seeing as how popular this game is. I just never got around to it and your post reminded me to.

 

Carry on :p.

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Well to start off with as I posted in another thread 6 minutes before this one appeared lol

 

 

Okay so Ocelot used hypnotic suggestion to make himself think he was Liquid Snake... I get that part. Okay. That... actually makes sense. I never thought theyd ever come up with a logical explanation on that... but what I don't get about it is why? What was he hoping to accomplish in doing so? Did I miss something?

 

that was very disappointin for me =(

liquid's spirit taking control over Ocelot was a better idea (lets not forget that The Sorrow was his father).

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One thing I've always wondered is this: Why does Snake have to go through the Microwave Chamber to G.W's Mainframe when Otacon does everything via Mk. III? Is there something I missed, or is it simply pointless?

 

Only thing I can figure is that somebody needed to be there to protect the Mk. III. Dont forget the hundreds of dwarf geckos after all

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Only thing I can figure is that somebody needed to be there to protect the Mk. III. Dont forget the hundreds of dwarf geckos after all

Yeah I thought of that, though they couldn't have known for sure that Dwarf Gekkos would ambush them. Even then, I'm sure then could've been something more convenient than sending Snake up there :p

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Can someone explain to me the point of those weird videos when you start a new game? Also, I don't remember being able to "change the channel" back in 2008.

 

You just press the directional buttons and it moves around. I always watch the one of the interview with David Hayter :p

 

form what I understand those are examples of ads (MGS4 universe) about the PMCs and why people should join them.

 

I never thought of that... that might be it, actually. There's a lot of ads of soldiers, from what I remember.

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What I really really really don't understand is why Ocelot came up with this convoluted plan to bring down the Patriots. Why go through all the trouble, all the plotting and scheming if he could just go to Snake and say "Hey, bro - let's destroy the Patriots together!" Of course, there wouldn't be a game, but it would at least make sense.

 

 

Oh, and can anyone with the knowledge of japanese language tell us what the hieroglyphs on the trophy icons mean?

Edited by purifico
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What I really really really don't understand is why Ocelot came up with this convoluted plan to bring down the Patriots. Why go through all the trouble, all the plotting and scheming if he could just go to Snake and say "Hey, bro - let's destroy the Patriots together!" Of course, there wouldn't be a game, but it would at least make sense.

 

 

Oh, and can anyone with the knowledge of japanese language tell us what the hieroglyphs on the trophy icons mean?

 

Ocelot was under the idea that he's Liquid Snake, who plain and simple did not like Solid Snake. Ocelot was also causing Solid Snake trouble across 2 games, call me crazy but I doubt Snake would want anything to do with a plan thought up by him. Snake also has plenty of problems to deal with; him and Otacon are still technically terrorists and his rapid aging. The last thing Snake would need is allying with Ocelot who is obviously causing havoc.

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Not to mention Snake's and Ocelot's goals are different.

 

Ocelot doesn't want the Patriot's down just so everyone's happy and free, his plan was just to free Big Boss from his coma since he's such a huge BB fanboy. He wants Big Boss's goals to become a reality; a world where soldiers will always have a place, where there's always war somewhere (without that kind of external control that the Patriots impose on the armies and PMC via the SOP system).

 

Of course, by the time Big Boss did wake up, he saw the mess that the world had become and realized both him and Zero had the wrong idea about shaping the world.

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What I really really really don't understand is why Ocelot came up with this convoluted plan to bring down the Patriots. Why go through all the trouble, all the plotting and scheming if he could just go to Snake and say "Hey, bro - let's destroy the Patriots together!" Of course, there wouldn't be a game, but it would at least make sense.

 

 

Oh, and can anyone with the knowledge of japanese language tell us what the hieroglyphs on the trophy icons mean?

 

I don't know Japanese, but I know the main Kanji (the one below) means Spirit.

 

http://www.ps3trophies.com/images/games/NPWR03485/Mf0cb88.png

 

Going by the symbols on the Laughter/Rage/Cry/Scream ammo in-game, I assume the icons for the Doll trophies for each B&B are Kanji for Laughter, Rage, Cry/Sorrow and Scream/Pain. Don't take my word for it though, I know nothing :rolleyes:

Edited by Dark_Raven666
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Yeah I thought of that, though they couldn't have known for sure that Dwarf Gekkos would ambush them. Even then, I'm sure then could've been something more convenient than sending Snake up there :p

Yeah the reason they send him was to protect him. But really the ultimate goal was to make a memorable climax, having Snake fried and showing what's going on on the other half of the screen. It would be kinda stupid if Snake stayed behind and said go ahead Otacon, wouldn't it?

 

You just press the directional buttons and it moves around. I always watch the one of the interview with David Hayter :p

 

Haha, same here, pretty funny interview. Never bothered watching the other ads.

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MGS4's story is just pretty much bullshit, really. Kojima-san lost his mind before making it. Hell, he lost his mind when he allowed the abortion that is Portable Ops to be made. Peace Walker (another travesty) was icing on the proverbial cake.

 

Some things didn't NEED explaining. Giving Vamp an excuse just ruined his cool, mysterious aura. Before MGS4 a lot of us die-hard fans speculated water was his key to regeneration (think about it: Raiden headshots him, Fortune's tears wake him up; you defeat him in the water purification room, where he dives in for breaks and eventually falls down there; finally, after sniping him when he has Emma, he falls into the sea).

 

Nanomachines was a stupid answer for everything. Big Boss shouldn't have survived. His entire body was burned with a gas fire for fuck's sake. It was a fairly touching moment at the end but it wasn't required.

 

That's basically MGS in a nuteshell: unnecessary. I also hate how so much was retconned again. To outright confirm Sigint was the DARPA Chief completely messes up age and time. MGS3 was 1964. MGS1 was 2005. Sigint was probably about 20 in MGS3, if not older? The Chief didn't exactly look to be in his '60s, if you ask me. More '50s.

 

I could maybe let that slide, but Dr. Clark in MGS1 is referred to as male (I think it's when they say Gray Fox killed him). They then flip on it and Para-Medic is the good doctor. Gender change... really good story! We never see Clark so it doesn't matter that much I guess.

 

Finally, DR. FUCKING MADNAR is mentioned. And he's a good guy who helps Raiden? Did Kojima just forget about him? He's the nutcase in Metal Gear 2 who jumps on your back and is behind Metal Gear (I can't remember the codename, Metal Gear D was MG1, I think; can't recall it in MG2).

 

Maybe it was just a tribute to the name, but it's stupid. Snake doesn't react in the slightest to the name.

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Ocelot was under the idea that he's Liquid Snake, who plain and simple did not like Solid Snake. Ocelot was also causing Solid Snake trouble across 2 games, call me crazy but I doubt Snake would want anything to do with a plan thought up by him. Snake also has plenty of problems to deal with; him and Otacon are still technically terrorists and his rapid aging. The last thing Snake would need is allying with Ocelot who is obviously causing havoc.

 

That's the thing - he wouldn't need to be causing havoc if he allied himself with Snake. And it desn't matter whether I like someone or not. If the easiest and fastest way to achieve my goal is to ally myself with someone I don't like - rest assured I will do it.

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MGS4's story is just pretty much bullshit, really. Kojima-san lost his mind before making it. Hell, he lost his mind when he allowed the abortion that is Portable Ops to be made. Peace Walker (another travesty) was icing on the proverbial cake.

 

Some things didn't NEED explaining. Giving Vamp an excuse just ruined his cool, mysterious aura. Before MGS4 a lot of us die-hard fans speculated water was his key to regeneration (think about it: Raiden headshots him, Fortune's tears wake him up; you defeat him in the water purification room, where he dives in for breaks and eventually falls down there; finally, after sniping him when he has Emma, he falls into the sea).

 

Nanomachines was a stupid answer for everything. Big Boss shouldn't have survived. His entire body was burned with a gas fire for fuck's sake. It was a fairly touching moment at the end but it wasn't required.

 

That's basically MGS in a nuteshell: unnecessary. I also hate how so much was retconned again. To outright confirm Sigint was the DARPA Chief completely messes up age and time. MGS3 was 1964. MGS1 was 2005. Sigint was probably about 20 in MGS3, if not older? The Chief didn't exactly look to be in his '60s, if you ask me. More '50s.

 

I could maybe let that slide, but Dr. Clark in MGS1 is referred to as male (I think it's when they say Gray Fox killed him). They then flip on it and Para-Medic is the good doctor. Gender change... really good story! We never see Clark so it doesn't matter that much I guess.

 

Finally, DR. FUCKING MADNAR is mentioned. And he's a good guy who helps Raiden? Did Kojima just forget about him? He's the nutcase in Metal Gear 2 who jumps on your back and is behind Metal Gear (I can't remember the codename, Metal Gear D was MG1, I think; can't recall it in MG2).

 

Maybe it was just a tribute to the name, but it's stupid. Snake doesn't react in the slightest to the name.

 

About Vamp - it's been a while since I played MGS2 but I'm pretty sure that his regenerating abilities being the nanomachines at work were explained in that game. MGS4 just repeated what was already stated. Must have been one of the codec conversations, possibly Otacon or Colonel. Or maybe even some behind the scenes material.

 

About Big Boss - it was not his body that was burned, but Solidus's

 

DARPA Chief - maybe he just works out and eats only healthy food? (this is just you nitpicking imo)

 

As for Dr Madnar, I've read a theory somewhere, that they were actually talking about Dr. Madnar's daughter (though I thought that she was a ballerina). Or maybe they are just namesakes.

Edited by purifico
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The story of MGS as a franchise is unnecessarily convoluted. There are so many twists and turns it's all over the place. When I saw Big Boss I was like 'oh, come on'. Just let things die. It's as if Kojima thinks 'this will be a surprise, let's include this, no matter how ridiculous it is.'

 

I understand why so many people love these games, but for me the story just became ridiculous from MGS2 onwards. The first was weird at times in it's own way, but it just got worse. I love the political messages regarding soldiers and governments etc, but the story becomes too much of a fantasy at times for me.

 

Oh, and Drebin, I don't want to hear the life story of everyone I kill.

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About Vamp - it's been a while since I played MGS2 but I'm pretty sure that his regenerating abilities being the nanomachines at work were explained in that game. MGS4 just repeated what was already stated. Must have been one of the codec conversations, possibly Otacon or Colonel. Or maybe even some behind the scenes material.

 

About Big Boss - it was not his body that was burned, but Solidus's

 

DARPA Chief - maybe he just works out and eats only healthy food? (this is just you nitpicking imo)

 

As for Dr Madnar, I've read a theory somewhere, that they were actually talking about Dr. Madnar's daughter (though I thought that she was a ballerina). Or maybe they are just namesakes.

 

lol, I can assure you I know MGS inside out mate. Played MGS2 over 40 times. As such, I can pretty much 100% say that Vamp's abilities are NEVER explained prior to MGS4.

 

Christ, you clearly don't know much about Metal Gear with line 2 there, pal. At the end of Metal Gear 2 (the one before MGS1...) Snake seemingly kills Big Boss with a makeshift flamethrower (lighter and gas canister/deodorant can or whatever, been a few years since I played). I'm not on about that scene in MGS4 at all!

 

The DARPA Chief isn't a massive issue, it's just an example of how everything didn't NEED to link up.

 

If that theory is in any way then just Lol. Horrendous. If it's nothing to do with the original Madnar, he just could have used a fucking different name. Not like there aren't millions to choose from. Simply serves as further proof that he's willing to retcon anything and doesn't give a fuck about anything prior to MGS1.

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MGS4's story is just pretty much bullshit, really. Kojima-san lost his mind before making it. Hell, he lost his mind when he allowed the abortion that is Portable Ops to be made. Peace Walker (another travesty) was icing on the proverbial cake.

 

Some things didn't NEED explaining. Giving Vamp an excuse just ruined his cool, mysterious aura. Before MGS4 a lot of us die-hard fans speculated water was his key to regeneration (think about it: Raiden headshots him, Fortune's tears wake him up; you defeat him in the water purification room, where he dives in for breaks and eventually falls down there; finally, after sniping him when he has Emma, he falls into the sea).

 

Nanomachines was a stupid answer for everything. Big Boss shouldn't have survived. His entire body was burned with a gas fire for fuck's sake. It was a fairly touching moment at the end but it wasn't required.

 

That's basically MGS in a nuteshell: unnecessary. I also hate how so much was retconned again. To outright confirm Sigint was the DARPA Chief completely messes up age and time. MGS3 was 1964. MGS1 was 2005. Sigint was probably about 20 in MGS3, if not older? The Chief didn't exactly look to be in his '60s, if you ask me. More '50s.

 

I could maybe let that slide, but Dr. Clark in MGS1 is referred to as male (I think it's when they say Gray Fox killed him). They then flip on it and Para-Medic is the good doctor. Gender change... really good story! We never see Clark so it doesn't matter that much I guess.

 

Finally, DR. FUCKING MADNAR is mentioned. And he's a good guy who helps Raiden? Did Kojima just forget about him? He's the nutcase in Metal Gear 2 who jumps on your back and is behind Metal Gear (I can't remember the codename, Metal Gear D was MG1, I think; can't recall it in MG2).

 

Maybe it was just a tribute to the name, but it's stupid. Snake doesn't react in the slightest to the name.

 

Well to each their own but I really liked MGS4's story. Honestly its hard for me to say which is the best Solid title between 4 and 1. Honestly I felt Vamp on MGS2 was just weird. There was way too many things weird on that game. I know MGS has always had it's dose of weird but that game went a little too far with it imo. Vamp's weird undying thing... The Liquid Snake's arm controlling him... lol.

 

And yes I know that everyone likes to complain about nanomachines... But I don't know of anything explained by nanomachines that I couldnt make sense of in my head. Remember that there are all sorts of nanomachines... its like comparing a dishwasher to a bulldozer because theyre both machines. Yeah they are but they have very different functions. If you can accept that nanomachines can monitor, record and affect all bodily and mental functions then the things that were explained by them make perfect sense.

 

But Big Boss was burned by a can of laquer spray and a lighter. lol. And its not impossible to survive being set on fire as long as you get medical attention. And let's not forget Dr Madnar was not far away and it was Madnar that saved him the first time.

 

As for Dr Clark... well Naomi never met Dr Clark... only heard her name... so she just assumed he was male. And thats not that farfetched. People often say "he" when referring to someone that theyre not sure of their gender. Thats what it says in the MGS encyclopedia anyway. Cuz I wondered that too so I looked it up.

 

As for Dr Madnar... I'll admit it's weird that Snake didn't react to the name... but Snake never hated Dr Madnar... or anyone else he fought against... Snake made it pretty clear on MGS1 that he was just a soldier on the other side. He didn't hold any grudges. and Madnar never actually cared about the politics or anything... He just wanted to finish the project he had worked so hard on. With his daughter being thousands of miles away I guess he felt that it was all he had left. And yeah it is the same Dr Madnar cuz again the MGS encyclopedia says that after that he went into hiding in Eastern Europe.

 

But you're of course entitled to your opinion. That's just my two cents

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