XboxAchievements Got a news tip? tips@ps3t.org
Username
Password
 

Go Back   PlaystationTrophies.org > > > >

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-31-2012, 09:59 PM   #1
ShadowAFC
Super Moderator
 
ShadowAFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 19,708

Awards Showcase Shadow's ''Box of Variety''   Staff - Super Moderator   Guide Supplement Silver   Word of Mouth - Gold   Helping Hand   Bronzer Than Nothing   Member of the Month Winner   Jack of All Trades   15,000 Posts   Community Gaming Event Bronze   Bronze Road Map Submitter   Bronze Submission
Total Awards: 14 (more» ...)
Default Dark Souls Story/Lore Discussion Thread *Spoilers*

WARNING!
SPOILER TAGS ARE NOT USED IN THIS THREAD!

You have entered a spoiler tag free zone about the game Dark Souls. This thread has been created to discuss anything Dark Souls related. You are permitted to discuss key plot points, boss battles and any part of the story openly without the use of SPOILER TAGS. Please note, this is not a "How do I..." thread. Any posts like this will be deleted.

In summary, this is a SPOILER TAG free zone. You do not have to use SPOILER TAGS within this thread. This thread is immune.

Last edited by ShadowAFC; 02-01-2012 at 04:44 PM.
ShadowAFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2012, 12:47 AM   #2
AlphaCookie
Events Director Lead
 
AlphaCookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: BloodborneGasm
Posts: 7,462
Send a message via Skype™ to AlphaCookie

Awards Showcase THL Season 6 - Olsen's Secret List   First PS4 Game Nights   Staff - Events Director   5,000 Posts   PS3T's 5th Birthday Game Night Series   THL Season 3 - Ghost Busters   Bronze Trophy Guide Submitter   Member of the Month Winner   Community Gaming Event Gold   Helping Hand
Total Awards: 10 (more» ...)
Default Dark Souls Story/Lore Discussion Thread

This thread is created for the purpose of discussing the story and lore surrounding Dark Souls. Since there is no concrete story, much of the world is left open to speculation, and therefore, a great topic for discussion and sharing theories on the world history of Lordran.

Spoilers may be revealed about the world, but since this is not a story driven game, and knowing the story won't ruin any encounters for you, and may even improve your experience with the game, spoiler tags are not necessary.

In Short:
Spoiler Tag Free Zone.
(unless a mod says otherwise)

There is many parts of Dark Souls' Lore ripe for speculation and discussion, and it is scattered across the many wikis and sites of the sort. But this thread is to discuss your view of the Lore and History in Lordran.

Which ending do you believe was the "good ending?" Is linking the fire in Kiln the good ending? Or are you just delaying the inevitable by continuing the cycle, and potentially ending up like Gwyn? Or if the Age of Dark is the Age of Man, where the Age of Fire was the Age of the Gods, wouldn't the Dark Lord ending be the true good ending?

What of the mysterious pendant that exists as the topic of many discussions across the internet? Do you think it has any revealing information, or was the game's director just trolling us when he said that he recommends it as your starting gift?

There is much to discuss, especially as people have their own point of view on the very intriguing Lore.

Discuss Away!
__________________

PC Build: FX-6300 Stock Clock, 7770 Ghz Edition, 8GB DDR3 1866 RAM | #WeAreThe98%OfPosts
Twitch | Youtube | Actual signature of quality by ESYLD
AlphaCookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2012, 11:36 AM   #3
Gnyg
 
Gnyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 3,631

Awards Showcase 2,500 Posts
Total Awards: 1 (more» ...)
Default

I like to think of Anor Londo as Mt.Olympus.
__________________

Gnyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2012, 02:57 PM   #4
Tostigroover
 
Tostigroover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 781
Default

I really like this thread. It can really help explain the lore and clarify the story of Dark Souls, history of Lordran, the endings and the purpose of your character.

Regarding the ending, I feel that the Dark Ending (i.e., not lighting the fire after beating Gwyn) is the morally good ending. It's the ending where the undead and humanity are freed from the deception by the gods.

I'm assuming this thread will be filled with spoilers and that it will be allowed here but I'm still trying to keep it vague enough until a moderator gives the OK.

For those who like YouTube uploads about the Dark Souls lore, check out Quelaag's channel. I really like her videos and she actually has knowledge on mythology, world history, different cultures and common sense.
__________________
One among you will shortly perish.

Check out my free music. I've done a Final Fantasy I and II remix: One, Two, Battle!


Last edited by Tostigroover; 02-01-2012 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Added link
Tostigroover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2012, 04:47 PM   #5
ShadowAFC
Super Moderator
 
ShadowAFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 19,708

Awards Showcase Shadow's ''Box of Variety''   Staff - Super Moderator   Guide Supplement Silver   Word of Mouth - Gold   Helping Hand   Bronzer Than Nothing   Member of the Month Winner   Jack of All Trades   15,000 Posts   Community Gaming Event Bronze   Bronze Road Map Submitter   Bronze Submission
Total Awards: 14 (more» ...)
Default

Normally these types of threads would require spoiler tags to be used, however, it has been transformed into one of our official story threads. You do not need to use tags here! I was going to wait and see what interest it generated, but nevermind that now

Also stuck!
ShadowAFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2012, 05:42 PM   #6
Kahalachan
 
Kahalachan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,516

Awards Showcase 2,500 Posts   Bronze Submission
Total Awards: 2 (more» ...)
Default

I think the good ending is the dark ending where you don't link the bonfire. The bonfires are actually "evil" in the game. You're forced to give up your humanity to kindle them. You're keeping the cycle going by lighting the bonfire at the end to be the new Dark Lord. The gameplay makes you want the bonfire. You rest at it, kindle it, and it helps you. But the story is that the bonfires are actually keeping the cycle going.

By refusing to kindle the bonfire you usher in an age of dark for the humans to thrive.


The pendant is said to comfort travelers. I have no idea what else it's good for other than trading for souvenir of reprisal.


Speculation:

1. Seath the Scaleless is Priscilla's father. Priscilla is an albino half-breed dragon. She does a white breath type attack. As some sort of outcast she hides in the Painted World that she created and asks people who wander in to kindly leave.

Seath betrayed his own kind and found love with the human giants there and made Priscilla the Crossbreed. She's an abomination for both dragons and giants so she hides in a world that is not belonging to either.

2. All of Dark Souls is the 6th Archstone in Demon's Souls. In Demon's Souls the 6th archstone is sealed away cause what was going on there was just way too crazy. It was the land of giants. In Dark Souls everything is giant and you're a descendant of the furtive pygmy (which is actually what humans are). We see Patches in both games.

What came first or if Demon's Souls and Dark Souls was happening side by side is a mystery.


/end speculation.


Questions:

Who are all the daughters of chaos? The witch of Izalith tried to recreate the first flame. The Bed of Chaos is the result. So the witch is the only character in the intro that isn't a boss.

1. Quelaag
2. Quelaag's sister. The one you talk to for the covenant.
3. Quelana. Teaches you pyromancy. The only daughter that didn't go mad. she actually keeps her head.
4. Corpse by Ceaseless Discharge where you get the gold hemmed set. This is what the daughters of chaos wear so is it possible Ceaseless Discharge killed one of the daughters or that it is a daughter or daughter's creation?
5. Hollow in Lost Izalith that attacks you.

If the witches meddled in chaotic magic, but it messed them up obviously and turned some of them them into spiders and such, would Centipede Demon be another daughter of chaos?


Who is the Everlasting Dragon? Why is he immortal? Did he go into hiding in Ash Lake during the war? His covenant is about making you be more like a dragon so he is trying to rebuild a dragon army to go against Gwyn again?



Stuff I liked about the story:

It's not told through cutscenes. And it's more in depth than Demon's Souls if you read every item description and exhaust all dilaog options. It's far superior a method of story-telling in games cause it remembers it's a game and not a movie. You can play or you can enjoy the story as far as you want to get into it.


What I love about the final boss fight is that after all that you've seen and been through the final boss isn't this super awesome monster. It's not this exciting epic battle. From the moment you enter you see this empty cave with one old man defending it to the death and the piano cues.

It's this bitter, withered, lonely, old man consumed by the darkness and this lust for power.
__________________

Retired trophy hunter. Gamer for life.

Last edited by Kahalachan; 02-01-2012 at 05:46 PM.
Kahalachan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2012, 06:15 PM   #7
AlphaCookie
Events Director Lead
 
AlphaCookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: BloodborneGasm
Posts: 7,462
Send a message via Skype™ to AlphaCookie

Awards Showcase THL Season 6 - Olsen's Secret List   First PS4 Game Nights   Staff - Events Director   5,000 Posts   PS3T's 5th Birthday Game Night Series   THL Season 3 - Ghost Busters   Bronze Trophy Guide Submitter   Member of the Month Winner   Community Gaming Event Gold   Helping Hand
Total Awards: 10 (more» ...)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahalachan View Post

2. All of Dark Souls is the 6th Archstone in Demon's Souls. In Demon's Souls the 6th archstone is sealed away cause what was going on there was just way too crazy. It was the land of giants. In Dark Souls everything is giant and you're a descendant of the furtive pygmy (which is actually what humans are). We see Patches in both games.

What came first or if Demon's Souls and Dark Souls was happening side by side is a mystery.




Questions:

Who are all the daughters of chaos? The witch of Izalith tried to recreate the first flame. The Bed of Chaos is the result. So the witch is the only character in the intro that isn't a boss.

1. Quelaag
2. Quelaag's sister. The one you talk to for the covenant.
3. Quelana. Teaches you pyromancy. The only daughter that didn't go mad. she actually keeps her head.
4. Corpse by Ceaseless Discharge where you get the gold hemmed set. This is what the daughters of chaos wear so is it possible Ceaseless Discharge killed one of the daughters or that it is a daughter or daughter's creation?
5. Hollow in Lost Izalith that attacks you.

If the witches meddled in chaotic magic, but it messed them up obviously and turned some of them them into spiders and such, would Centipede Demon be another daughter of chaos?
I can see how Lordran could be the 6th archstone. Patches shows they could possibly be connected somehow. But obviously the events in Dark Souls have to be occurring at a different time, since Boletaria seems to have zero connection outside a recurring character. Armors are generally different, and technology and soul arts has definitely evolved (or maybe even devolved since pyromancy and magic were one in the same in Demon's Souls) So Dark Souls could even be taking place before the rest of the world got invaded by the fog. It would stand to reason since the Bed of Chaos is the source of Demons that many Demons (even a massive army) had already gone out towards Boletaria.
It could also be assumed the events of both games are happening at the same time as well, and the 6th archstone was destroyed to at least slow down the progression of the Demons.

Of course that's wild speculation at best

I think the most popular theory for the unaccounted Sisters of Chaos is that the two spheres you need to destroy on the Bed of Chaos could be the other sisters. Since it is assumed by description that the Bed of Chaos absorbed (or is) the actual Witch of Izalith, and since the Bed of Chaos was created by her meddling with souls trying to recreate the First Flame, it would make sense for a few of her follows to be consumed as well.

As for Ceaseless Discharge. I think your idea is spot on with it being another one of the sisters. I think this is supported because Ceaseless won't attack you until you attack it, but more importantly, if you take that armor it becomes hostile as well, like if you were robbing her grave

I guess if you really wanna get into potentials, Yuria the Witch from Demon's Souls could possibly be one of the sisters. Sure she doesn't wear the same clothes, but she is probably running from her past, and if I recall in Demon's, Yuria gives you the most powerful Fire based Magic.

Of course this is all a shot in the dark since the games "supposedly" aren't connected.

That pendant still has me interested though.
__________________

PC Build: FX-6300 Stock Clock, 7770 Ghz Edition, 8GB DDR3 1866 RAM | #WeAreThe98%OfPosts
Twitch | Youtube | Actual signature of quality by ESYLD
AlphaCookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 02:07 AM   #8
SnapGW
 
SnapGW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: So Cal, 'nuff said.
Posts: 854
Default

I really like the IDEA of this thread, and I'd love to see what details other users have uncovered about the lore of Dark Souls which myself and others I've discussed it with have possibly missed. But fanfic and wild assumptions is NOT "Lore Discussion". For example, anyone who makes a claim, as boldly as Kahala did his, that Smough and Pharis are the other 2 of Gwyn's 4 Knights is NOT Discussing Lore; they're just making shit up, because that is wrong.

What is the "First Flame"? Though central to the plot and setting of the game, FromSoft wisely left the details surrounding the "First Flame" gloriously vague. What IS it? Is it a tangible object of great importance and magnitude, perhaps the sun? Is it a more figurative notion, such as the collective technological and cultural progress of mankind? Is it somewhere inbetween, like as if to say it was the "life force" of the world? We can never be sure, because FromSoft wouldn't say. And as you can extrapolate from what they HAVE said, they deliberately wanted it this way. Nothing's more endearing to the heart, or inspiring to adventure, as a mystery. If they gave it a singular meaning, all of the intrigue and wonderment it could offer us would be done away with. But as it is, though no one person's answer is more correct than any other, it's something special that can only be found within those of us who bother to give the mystery life.

Who were the 4 Knights of Gwyn, and where are they now? There is no mystery in the "who" part of the question, though where they have gone now IS open to much, continuous, speculative debate.
Sir Ornstein the Dragonslayer, captain of the Four Knights of Gwyn.
Sir Artorias the Abysswalker, who fell to the Dark.
Sir Gough the Hawkeye, leader of the Greatarchers.
Sir Ciaran the Lord's Blade, personal assassin to the Lord of Cinder.
While Artorias is presumed dead (given that he has a grave in Darkroot Garden, past the Dark Forest), the only confirmed death among the the Four Knights of Gwyn is Ornstein, as the Chosen Undead (the player's character) kills him as part of their journey during the game's story. The whereabouts of the other 2 remains a complete mystery...

There's tons more, of course, but I can always add more, later... =)
__________________

If you're a REAL gamer you: seek a challenge, leave no game unfinished,
earn trophies yourself, and neither own nor plan to own Hannah Montana!

Last edited by SnapGW; 02-06-2012 at 03:44 AM.
SnapGW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 03:11 AM   #9
Kahalachan
 
Kahalachan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,516

Awards Showcase 2,500 Posts   Bronze Submission
Total Awards: 2 (more» ...)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaCookie View Post
I can see how Lordran could be the 6th archstone. Patches shows they could possibly be connected somehow. But obviously the events in Dark Souls have to be occurring at a different time, since Boletaria seems to have zero connection outside a recurring character. Armors are generally different, and technology and soul arts has definitely evolved (or maybe even devolved since pyromancy and magic were one in the same in Demon's Souls) So Dark Souls could even be taking place before the rest of the world got invaded by the fog. It would stand to reason since the Bed of Chaos is the source of Demons that many Demons (even a massive army) had already gone out towards Boletaria.
It could also be assumed the events of both games are happening at the same time as well, and the 6th archstone was destroyed to at least slow down the progression of the Demons.

Of course that's wild speculation at best

I think the most popular theory for the unaccounted Sisters of Chaos is that the two spheres you need to destroy on the Bed of Chaos could be the other sisters. Since it is assumed by description that the Bed of Chaos absorbed (or is) the actual Witch of Izalith, and since the Bed of Chaos was created by her meddling with souls trying to recreate the First Flame, it would make sense for a few of her follows to be consumed as well.

As for Ceaseless Discharge. I think your idea is spot on with it being another one of the sisters. I think this is supported because Ceaseless won't attack you until you attack it, but more importantly, if you take that armor it becomes hostile as well, like if you were robbing her grave

I guess if you really wanna get into potentials, Yuria the Witch from Demon's Souls could possibly be one of the sisters. Sure she doesn't wear the same clothes, but she is probably running from her past, and if I recall in Demon's, Yuria gives you the most powerful Fire based Magic.

Of course this is all a shot in the dark since the games "supposedly" aren't connected.

That pendant still has me interested though.
Yeah the magics and armors are different, but if you see Lordran and Boletaria as 2 different cultures having their own unique ideas on magic and armor, then it's possible. It'd be like the difference between Christianity and Buddhism.

Pryomancy and Magic are considered 2 different specializations in Lordran but consolidated in Boletaria. Yuria being a daughter of chaos sounds pretty cool.

I find the witches of Izalith the most interesting. Everything chaos requires humanity. Humanity is used to kindle a bonfire. It makes flame stronger. Chaos weapons are more powerful with more humanity. Chaos pyromancy is more powerful than just the regular pyromancy version of that spell. It's like they discovered this forbidden magic that strips away humanity for power. Really cool stuff.
__________________

Retired trophy hunter. Gamer for life.

Last edited by Johnny Bananas; 02-06-2012 at 02:25 AM.
Kahalachan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 08:42 AM   #10
AlphaCookie
Events Director Lead
 
AlphaCookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: BloodborneGasm
Posts: 7,462
Send a message via Skype™ to AlphaCookie

Awards Showcase THL Season 6 - Olsen's Secret List   First PS4 Game Nights   Staff - Events Director   5,000 Posts   PS3T's 5th Birthday Game Night Series   THL Season 3 - Ghost Busters   Bronze Trophy Guide Submitter   Member of the Month Winner   Community Gaming Event Gold   Helping Hand
Total Awards: 10 (more» ...)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahalachan View Post
Yeah the magics and armors are different, but if you see Lordran and Boletaria as 2 different cultures having their own unique ideas on magic and armor, then it's possible. It'd be like the difference between Christianity and Buddhism.

Pryomancy and Magic are considered 2 different specializations in Lordran but consolidated in Boletaria. Yuria being a daughter of chaos sounds pretty cool.

I find the witches of Izalith the most interesting. Everything chaos requires humanity. Humanity is used to kindle a bonfire. It makes flame stronger. Chaos weapons are more powerful with more humanity. Chaos pyromancy is more powerful than just the regular pyromancy version of that spell. It's like they discovered this forbidden magic that strips away humanity for power. Really cool stuff.
I could see how that could work, Boletaria and Lordran being two different cultures and all. It just seems a little unlikely there wouldn't be more traces of Boletaria in Lordran if they truly were connected. So I don't know if it being the 6th archstone is feasible, but existing in the same world seems likely, even being neighboring nations then since even with the subtle differences in armors and weapons, technology has advanced to generally the same point, in generally the same way.

I remember reading somewhere that Pyromancy is considered more rudimentary than Soul based magic. So it would stand to say Boletaria was more advanced in terms of magic as a whole since they could treat both Pyromancy and Soul Arts as one in the same. It also could be reasoned Lordran is more advanced because Pyromancy and Soul Arts are separate practices, meaning they each require mastery on their own instead of training in one universal art.

Its very open to debate.


Back onto lore.

Of course, I have to my obligatory, "that pendant still interests me to an Nth degree." So I will. That pendant still interests me to an Nth degree. Especially after scowering the Internets for more info and seeing the list of theories.

What I really want to know right now though, is about Gwynevere(sp?). It is said (and pretty much confirmed), that the one inside Anor Londo at the time of the game is an illusion created by Gwyndolin. Since that is the case, was there ever a real Gwynevere, or does Gwyndolin just use the illusion to complete his own agenda? Or possibly both?

I think it can be argued Gwyndolin uses the illusion to guide you as the "Chosen Undead" to achieve his own agenda. Since the "Age of Fire" is the Age of the Gods, and that age is ending, its only obvious Gwyndolin being a Deity would want that to not happen. By guiding you to succeed his father with his illusion of Gwynevere, he would be able to help you link the fire and restart the cycle without having to sacrifice himself in any way.

So I think it stands as a possibility, Gwyndolin, to some degree is guiding you to prolong the "Age of Fire." Maybe not a significantly revealing point about the world, but it does make sense to me in terms of choosing which of the endings are a bit less crap for everybody (since both endings seem to have a dismal destination)

But I'm still curious about Gwynevere's existence. If Gwynevere truly did exist why did she leave Anor Londo? Because of what Seath was doing as you can find what are probably Gwyneveres servants in the Dukes Archives. (the Pisca's that you find the miracles connected to Gwynevere's covenant on.)
__________________

PC Build: FX-6300 Stock Clock, 7770 Ghz Edition, 8GB DDR3 1866 RAM | #WeAreThe98%OfPosts
Twitch | Youtube | Actual signature of quality by ESYLD
AlphaCookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 02:50 PM.