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I personally think the whole Booker is Comstock deal isn't that amazing as reviewers make it out to be. And the Inception style ending cliffhanger screams "BUY THE SEASON PASS TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS TO ELIZABETH" or be happy with choosing your own possibility that you believe happens - it is of course interpretable in many ways. The ending, with the "deletion" of parallel universes, potentially eliminates the universe(s) where BS1 & 2 take place meaning they may not even happen or never happened, which ever you want to say, and that's pretty funny really. I probably will buy the Season Pass to find out what happens, but the ending is a bit of a mess in my opinion.

 

That sounds negative but don't get me wrong, it's good, just the ending tries to be deep but ends a bit pretentious and, as the case with almost all time travel plots, has plot holes galore if you want to explore other possibilities. But in addition to that, the whole race & jingoism issues everyone talked about prior to release aren't even a major part of the story to be honest, and those along with the Vox Populi too felt somewhat shoehorned it and this creates too many elements that aren't needed really.

 

I liked the characters, Elizabeth was great along with the Lutece siblings. Booker was kind of average. The part when you get sent to Rapture was cool, probably my favourite part in the game.

 

Please don't respond to me with "2deep4u" or "you don't get it" because I do and this is just my opinion.

Edited by Jonn_
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Here is the last battle on 1999 mode and what to do to beat it , ending is also there for anyone who wants to watch it

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuEb9YG_N8A]Bioshock Infinite : Last Battle + Ending ( 1999 Mode & After Credits ) 1080p - YouTube[/ame]

 

At last I can speak out ! HandyMan is a big FAIL , I rated this down cause there is only 3 of him and he sucks big time , Big Daddy is the bioshock most important character how dare they ! and for the ending .... I really didn't like how it went down like that :\ too many worlds and stuff , still they gave it a 9 ... this is sooooo over rated for a game that is 7 hours to beat ( my first time 7 hours easy mode ) I thought mode 1999 will give me a challenge just like dead space but that's a 6/10 difficulty :S , Floating city ok but can we go where ever we want ? nope just look at it from far away and enjoy the view :p you are limited to the battle ground you are at , my personal rating is 7.5/10 ( Zero )

Edited by duck360
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I just finished the game and I actually enjoyed the ending, I don't fully understand it am sure but I enjoyed it. I just want to read what everyone gets from the ending.

 

Let me know if this timeline is wrong in someway:

 

So basically the start of the story is that I am Booker, I have a baby girl named Anna, I have some kind of huge debt and did some really bad stuff that I can wipe away by giving them (not sure who are them exactly) Anna. Cromstock gets Anna and at this point I hesitated and wanted to get her back and that's how she lost her finger (because of the wall hole thing). Anna gets raised by Cromstock and his wife, they change her name to Elizabeth and lock her in that tower with a bird guarding her.

 

Now here is where I get confused, why did I go after Elizabeth, was it again to get the girl and pay my debt, again? not sure whats going on here, it might be some time/space travel thing am confusing.

 

Also I was just wondering, when I first find Elizabeth she asks me to choose one of two things for her (the bird or the cage) does that effect or change anything in the end?

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I just finished the game and I actually enjoyed the ending, I don't fully understand it am sure but I enjoyed it. I just want to read what everyone gets from the ending.

 

Let me know if this timeline is wrong in someway:

 

So basically the start of the story is that I am Booker, I have a baby girl named Anna, I have some kind of huge debt and did some really bad stuff that I can wipe away by giving them (not sure who are them exactly) Anna. Cromstock gets Anna and at this point I hesitated and wanted to get her back and that's how she lost her finger (because of the wall hole thing). Anna gets raised by Cromstock and his wife, they change her name to Elizabeth and lock her in that tower with a bird guarding her.

 

Now here is where I get confused, why did I go after Elizabeth, was it again to get the girl and pay my debt, again? not sure whats going on here, it might be some time/space travel thing am confusing.

 

Also I was just wondering, when I first find Elizabeth she asks me to choose one of two things for her (the bird or the cage) does that effect or change anything in the end?

 

Okay, Booker IS Comstock. The baptism is a splitting point for 2 different realities to occur. If Booker decides to be baptised, he turns into Comstock. Soon after he becomes infertile and is unable to have children so, with the help of the Lutece siblings, makes some kind of machine that sends him to a parralel universe where Booker took the OTHER choice - he didn't get baptised - and in that reality he has a child Anna. To pay of his debt (I think it was gambling debt) which is owed to Robert Lutece, who does this as part of the plan for Comstock to get a child, he gives Anna to him - he gives the girl to pay off the debt. He soon regrets this and goes after them, narrowly losing her.

 

I don't believe the choice of bird or cage changes anything.

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Okay, Booker IS Comstock. The baptism is a splitting point for 2 different realities to occur. If Booker decides to be baptised, he turns into Comstock. Soon after he becomes infertile and is unable to have children so, with the help of the Lutece siblings, makes some kind of machine that sends him to a parralel universe where Booker took the OTHER choice - he didn't get baptised - and in that reality he has a child Anna. To pay of his debt (I think it was gambling debt) which is owed to Robert Lutece, who does this as part of the plan for Comstock to get a child, he gives Anna to him - he gives the girl to pay off the debt. He soon regrets this and goes after them, narrowly losing her.

 

I don't believe the choice of bird or cage changes anything.

 

Perfect, thanks a lot for the clarification.

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Perfect, thanks a lot for the clarification.

 

No problem, the real question we need to consider is what happens to the final Elizabeth in the ending.

 

Also, I just read somewhere that there is an extra scene after the credits! I need to go replay the last stage again lol, skipped them first time round.

 

EDIT: There IS a scene after the credits, it's ANOTHER damn cliffhanger. Booker is in the office and you can hear 'lullaby music' from the adjacent room. He shouts her name a few times, his voice sounding urgent, and when you open the door, you can see glimpse of the cot & then it ends.

 

It could be a universe where Booker didn't get a bad conscience from Wounded Knee and he avoids the baptism completely, and the urgency from his voice is because he retains memory from his form that was killed by multiple Elizabeths. Or it could be a universe where Booker manages to grab Elizabeth before going into the portal and Comstock is starting to destroy New York (although in other universes Elizabeth did it) and the urgency is from the explosions.

 

Or it could be another possibility, they are infinite after all.

 

Fucking cliffhangers, man. They make me think too much! 2 cliffhangers is too much! I need closure! Oh yeah, that means buying a season pass. I'm sure they didn't see that coming.

 

EDIT2: FUCK I just thought about the tears that give you a glimpse into the future, like the Revenge of the Jedi cinema in Paris and tears with 80s (?) music. So maybe it will continue in the future, goddamn.

Edited by Jonn_
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Timetravel plotholes and taking fantasy liberties with the whole parallel universes idea which I can live with just fine aside, the actual ending doesn't even make a bit of sense within the game's own lore.

 

They want to go kill the Booker from the past before he makes his decision about the baptism in order to prevent any parallel universes with Comstock in them to occur.

 

But:

 

(a) It's a huge oversight that they ignore the fact it's highly unlikely if impossible there's only one universe in which Booker is at the point of deciding his future. Even such a small thing like him having decided what to wear on that day a few hours earlier would have brought a few different "Booker baptism scenarios" into existence, not to speak about the possible state of any particle in the universe at any given time up to this point.

 

(B) Even if you accept killing one Booker at one of the many baptism scenarios would suffice ... they don't even do that. Elizabeth does not kill the younger Booker before his life altering/determining decision, she kills an older Booker from a universe and a time in which he already had made that decision years ago whom she just brought back in time to the day of his baptism/not-baptism. (And it doesn't even appear to be a "real" universe to begin with, more like one of the places she creates within her mind.)

 

 

A thing I didn't really get was the purpose of Elizabeth to Cumstock. He wanted his "seed" to become his successor and destroy the world or at least America, but he was sterile, so he went into a reality in which he actually had a child and took that child into his universe. If I understood this correctly, her not belonging into the universe she is in is what gave her her powers. But, in order to get her into his universe, he already had access to such powers. ???

 

I'm also confused about Comstocks prophecy business. The game states that he's basically a liar, but it certainly appeared as if he knew a lot about what was going to happen which isn't a miracle if you have access to timespace travel and can even go observe different outcomes of situations. Maybe what it meant is that he's lying about the divine origin of his prophecies, but it seemed to me as if he was actually convinced about that himself.

Edited by SoPoF
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(a) & (B)

 

...Cumstock...He wanted his "seed"

 

A thing I didn't really get was the purpose of Elizabeth to Cumstock. He wanted his "seed" to become his successor and destroy the world or at least America, but he was sterile, so he went into a reality in which he actually had a child and took that child into his universe. If I understood this correctly, her not belonging into the universe she is in is what gave her her powers. But, in order to get her into his universe, he already had access to such powers. ???

Exactly, there is an infinite number of those "branching points". Killing him in ONE would only collapse a small number of universes.

 

Lol at Cumstock

 

Yeah, I mean he could just groom anyone to destroy America, but anyway, he used the Lutece siblings to create the device - the power - to allow travel between universes and get Elizabeth.

 

The more I think about this ending the more I realise how flawed it is. How the fuck are reviewers praising it so much, plot wise it's like swiss cheese.

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Strange ending but here's my take:

 

In some realities, Booker doesn't get baptized and goes on to have Anna / Elizabeth. In other realities, he is baptized and becomes the religious zealot Comstock. In order to erase Comstock from all realities, Elizabeth tells Booker that he needs to die A) before having her and B) before becoming Comstock.

 

Thus, Booker commits suicide at the end, erasing all Elizabeths and all Comstocks from existence. Very similar to one of the alternate endings to the film The Butterfly Effect, where the protagonist strangles himself on his umbilical cord in order to avoid the mistakes he'd go on to make later in life.

 

The whole Rapture scene is there for A) fan service and B) to establish how all of these strange realities exist. Booker only becomes Comstock in a number of realities, not all of them. It's quite likely that in the "Bioshock 1/2" reality, he drown and Columbia never came to be. Some people on youtube are claiming that Booker is Andrew Ryan which is wholly untrue (timeline doesn't match up, Ryan was born in Russia, etc).

 

Basically there are infinite realities and in some of them, Booker becomes a crazy tyrant. In order to prevent that, he kills himself. That's why all of the Elizabeth's vanish at the end: they were never born.

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I've just finished this, and I'll probably go more in-depth when I've played it through again and reflected more on it.

 

The whole Rapture sequence and the death of Songbird almost had me in tears due to my undying love of the first game. Just seeing it again was incredible.

 

I originally called Booker as being Elizabeth's brother and the "Bastard" that Comstock referred to. Then when I found out he was sterile I switched to the "Elizabeth is his daughter" reality. That's the problem with reviews saying "there's a mssive revelation", you come up with all sorts :p Didn't call him being Comstock though. I wonder what the DLC will focus on. Obviously Booker is now dead so Elizabeth can exist, so maybe it will be her.

 

Not sure where old Elizabeth came from though, she seemed to just me there for exposition.

 

Disappointed we didn't get to fight Songbird. The Handyman was a poor excuse for a Big Daddy, so there was no "big fight feel" at any point.

 

That zeppelin fight at the end was rock-hard even on Medium, so not looking forward to that on 1999. I never died, but Songbird did a lot. The Lady Comstock fights were really tough too. Is there actually any proper strategies for them?

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Thus, Booker commits suicide at the end, erasing all Elizabeths and all Comstocks from existence.

 

Yes, that's what the ending is supposed to mean, but it's not what is actually happing.

 

As I wrote, they don't kill Booker before he makes his decision, they kill one Booker, namely the player, who already made the decision years ago, thus not changing anything about the past. Also, the whole thing would only work anyways if there was only only one universe in which Booker must make that decision, which is obviously not the case.

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To be honest I had read about the ending before playing the game but waved it off think it was a load of BS that somebody was making up. So when it turned that *was* the actual ending, it got a legitimate 'holy shit' out of me.

 

Incidentally I came to a kinda disturbing conclusion when I got to where they where keeping her. Since Elizabeth had be monitored pretty much her entire life, that would mean that would not only being spying on her doing normal stuff, but also when she was changing clothes, bathing or.... *ahem* doing a little spelunking ifyougetmymeaning.

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Yes, that's what the ending is supposed to mean, but it's not what is actually happing.

 

As I wrote, they don't kill Booker before he makes his decision, they kill one Booker, namely the player, who already made the decision years ago, thus not changing anything about the past. Also, the whole thing would only work anyways if there was only only one universe in which Booker must make that decision, which is obviously not the case.

 

That doesn't explain why multiple Elizabeth's vanish at the end. If each Booker in each universe acts the same way up until the baptism decision (which the game has you believe), killing the "root" Booker would eliminate all other Elizabeths and all other Comstocks. While we only see 5 Elizabeths vanish at the end - implying that there may be more realities with Booker / Elizabeth / Comstock or some combination - I interpreted his suicide as changing all potential futures, especially if Elizabeth led him through the door that leads to all others (the baptism scene).

 

I haven't seen the post credits stuff that hints at a Booker / Elizabeth combination still existing (which would make sense given the game's title). But the game ending clearly shows multiple realities being altered due to Booker's suicide, so unless we get DLC that shows other options, I'm sticking with that interpretation about Booker closing all of his potential futures as a result of his suicide. :think:

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wow...i just finished it. mid way thorugh the game i started to understand it then bam plot twist and i still kinda understand it...then the ending happend lol.

 

i think you guys are helping me understand a bit better.

 

so why did he want to destroy America? it seems like he just wanted to be god. there are still so many little things i don't understand.

Like his realtionship with slate, the twins ect

Edited by ScarredBushido
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That doesn't explain why multiple Elizabeth's vanish at the end. If each Booker in each universe acts the same way up until the baptism decision (which the game has you believe), killing the "root" Booker would eliminate all other Elizabeths and all other Comstocks. While we only see 5 Elizabeths vanish at the end - implying that there may be more realities with Booker / Elizabeth / Comstock or some combination - I interpreted his suicide as changing all potential futures, especially if Elizabeth led him through the door that leads to all others (the baptism scene).

 

I haven't seen the post credits stuff that hints at a Booker / Elizabeth combination still existing (which would make sense given the game's title). But the game ending clearly shows multiple realities being altered due to Booker's suicide, so unless we get DLC that shows other options, I'm sticking with that interpretation about Booker closing all of his potential futures as a result of his suicide. :think:

 

 

Yes it does though, the disappearing Elizabeths would be only from the universes that branched from THAT baptism - infinite universes means that there are infinite "root" Bookers.

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so why did he want to destroy America?

 

I think the answer is hurt pride and self-betrayal. Booker committed certain atrocities during the battle at Wounded Knee, namely even killing helpless civilians just for the sake of recognition and acceptation.

 

He later realized he had done a very bad thing. His turning to religion was basically the desire to be forgiven. However, Booker decided that his sins were to grave to be forgiven while Comstock, on the other hand, went through with it, obviously downplaying the incident and justifying it to himself. This is apparent when you visit the museum section of the game where he is portrayed as a hero, the enemies as ugly savages and his part in the battle at Wounded Knee glorified.

 

In order to allow himself to see himself as a hero, he had to see his victims not as equal human beings, so he became more and more racist.

 

The problem was most likely that the rest of the world didn't share his views. Burning helpless civilians is frowned upon, When he continued that way and did a similar thing to the Chinese, America didn't want to have any part with it and tried to call him back.

 

He cut all ties to America and disappeared with Columbia, villainizes the states in order to keep his delusions about himself as the hero and saviour and everyone who opposes him as evil. Ingame, you learn that he felt betrayed by America. Basically, he commited all theses sins FOR America and then it turned its back on him and wanted to stop him, most likely even punish him.

 

He calls destroying America a righteous judgement, but it's really just his personal revenge.

 

Like his realtionship with slate

 

Slate was a comrade of Booker during Wounded Knee. Since he doesn't know Comstock is Booker, he considers Comstock a liar who wasn't even there. That's why he doesn't respect him and doesn't want himself and his group to be defeated by someone like Comstock. That would be too shameful. When Booker shows up, whom he knows and knows what he is capable of, he takes this as the chance to lead his men into an honorable death by the hand of a true soldier: Booker. Instead of being killed by Comstock which he is certain will happen otherwise.

 

the twins ect

 

They're not really twins or siblings. They are one and the same person from different universes with the difference being the one chromosome: boy or girl, XY or XX. They are the one who delivered all the research to get the powers needed to get Columbia floating (or rather, "failing to fall"^^) and accessing parallel universes.

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Slate was a comrade of Booker during Wounded Knee. Since he doesn't know Comstock is Booker, he considers Comstock a liar who wasn't even there. That's why he doesn't respect him and doesn't want himself and his group to be defeated by someone like Comstock. That would be too shameful. When Booker shows up, whom he knows and knows what he is capable of, he takes this as the chance to lead his men into an honorable death by the hand of a true soldier: Booker. Instead of being killed by Comstock which he is certain will happen otherwise.

 

DING!

 

This is the kind of stuff I'm looking forward to spotting on my second playthrough :)

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I wonder, if Booker was sterile, how did he have a daughter to begin with, it doesn't make sense that Booker became sterile after he accepted the batism and became Comstock, so just how did he have a daughter to begin with and if Booker isn't Anna biological father, who the hell is her parents??

 

Also something that I remember after a few hours thinking about the end is that the Lutece siblings wanted Elizabeth to return to the she belongs, and in my opinion the place she "belongs" is with Booker, so in my opinion Booker and Elizabeth will still fight to find a way to be together, or at least try damn hard, I mean a Elizabeth from the future managed to bring Booker 70 years just so she could pass a message to him, so I don't believe that Elizabeth can just live without Booker and vice-versa. If Elizabeth managed to survive, since it doesn't show her "death", I'm pretty sure she will search for Booker to try to create a future for them both with them together this time.

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I wonder, if Booker was sterile, how did he have a daughter to begin with, it doesn't make sense that Booker became sterile after he accepted the batism and became Comstock, so just how did he have a daughter to begin with and if Booker isn't Anna biological father, who the hell is her parents??

 

Booker and Anna are Elizabeth's parents. The way I understood it, is that the stuff Comstock was dealing with - the "science", parallel dimensions, quantum physics ect. - made him sterile. maybe some sort of radiation, just like it made him age faster. (At least the latter is mentioned somewhere.)

 

Also something that I remember ... both with them together this time.

 

What? :confused:

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Booker and Anna are Elizabeth's parents. The way I understood it, is that the stuff Comstock was dealing with - the "science", parallel dimensions, quantum physics ect. - made him sterile. maybe some sort of radiation, just like it made him age faster. (At least the latter is mentioned somewhere.)

 

 

 

What? :confused:

 

The second part that I was trying to say is: with the Lutece brother (forgot the name of the Lutece siblings) says that he wants Elizabeth to return to Booker or he will dissapear from his sister, so both of them works towards to reunite Elizabeth and Booker, but the ending shows (the whole crib appearing but they don't show Anna) that maybe they failed at that, and they might try for extreme methods to make both of them to find a life together so I was only wondering how far Booker and Elizabeth will go to be together since the siblings seems to be the kind of people that doesn't try not to interfere much in this "problem"...

 

Another thing that the game showed is how much Booker and Elizabeth are lonely people, and in the end it seems that they can only find trust in each other, the rest of the people only wants to use them for something, found that depressing but it makes sense as how much they bond throught the game.

 

And finally how nice is to have a friendly AI that doesn't botter when playing a FPS... now I'm wishing that all friendly AI are made to be like Elizabeth, she saved my skin so many time in the game.

Edited by LeonSPBR
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After seeing the end all I can see is WOW especailly the Bioshock 1 nod. Do you guys think we will see a revisit of Rapture or perhaps another universe/utopia in any upcoming dlc?

 

I think Rapture should be left alone, I already have outstanding memories from 1 and 2. That little nod made me pretty emotional, so I think I'd like that to be my last experience of Rapture.

 

They created an amazing city with Columbia, and the ending showed us the thousands of different worlds. I'd like to see a new city again, although where they can go that's unique I don't know. A space station? :p

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